AIBU in thinking that in trying to make things better for DD I have made them worse?

[ParanoidAnnie]

I've posted about DD before and always had great unbiased advice.

DD is 8 and had a horrendous year at school last school year (Year 3). I was constantly in with the Head as she was picked on by one particular girl who is very precocious and seemed to have a dislike of DD. DD had been physically hurt on several occasions. It culminated in me making a formal accusation of bullying against this child. It was a difficult decision as I know the parents and did speak to them socially on occasion. The day I made the accusation DD was actually afraid to go to school and I had to keep her off, so I didn't do it lightly if you see what I mean.

I do know that there were occasions when DD had retaliated (some pre meditated) to this girl and as far as I was concerned the situation was becoming intolerable and could not continue. My bright happy child was changing before my eyes and it was heart breaking.

This was all at the end of last term. The mother of the child in question reacted very badly to the bullying accusation. She refused to speak to me (her prerogative I know) and I didn't push it all. She turned her back on me in the yard constantly and refused to believe that her daughter had done anything wrong.

Roll forward to this year and on the first day of term this girl hurt DD by squeezing her arms so hard she left marks. DD followed instructions and informed teachers and didn't retaliate. The school logged the incident but at the time as there were no witnesses couldn't do anything despite my protestations. On Friday another girl came forward who HAD witnessed the incident and when questioned by the Head confirmed the story exactly as my DD had said. The girl was punished by missing 2 break times.

Now she is having a party and both her and her mum handed out invites to all the girls in DD's class apart from DD. DD was visibly upset but handled it very well. Again, heart breaking to watch for me as her mum. I didn't expect an invite given the history, but to hand out invites in front of DD and highlight the fact that she is the only one excluded is very cruel in my opinion.

Well done if you have got this far. What I am asking is - should I have left things? By reporting this bullying (officially) I feel that I have made matters worse for DD. This girl is constantly saying 'I can't be near you - I am not allowed'. It is a small school and this makes DD's life really difficult.

Sorry for the rambling!

You have done the right thing. It sounds very much like the other mother is condoning her DD's behaviour by allowing her to very publicly invite everyone else - that is just uneccesary and mean, IMO. The period between now and party (and immediately after) are going to be hard for your poor DD, no question, and she willl need lots of support. However, the fact that the other girl's birthday is early in the year at least gets it over and done with and she can't hold "well I'm going to invite everyone except you..." over your DD after that.

I would be tempted to meet with new class teacher, just to make sure that she is aware of the history, and of the party situation, and can keep an eye on things in the next few weeks.

goldenprimrose It is so good to hear someone else moved their child and it all worked out.

Yes, our daughter was told to always tell a teacher, to make herself heard and to stand up for herself. In the end DD stopped telling me things because she thought I was being ineffective dealing with the bullying situation. I was doing everything I could to help her and felt like school werent doing their job properly. In the end I spoke to deputy head who I knew personally and said that I was taking DD out of school due to (mostly) this girls bullying.

Oh and this was an 'excellent' Ofsted school. (It wasnt) The one she is at now is V good and has worked hard to make it that way. Totally different ethos to her previous school and it is shown in lots of ways - from how they do school plays to how they handle situations that arise.

You did the right thing, and it is good too see you realise that it may be that your DD retaliates sometimes. The other Mum seems a bit childish but I expect she hears a very different version of the situation from her DD. unfortunately, some girls (and boys) can be so incredibly sneaky and clever about bullying.

I think it is obnoxious to hand out invitations to all the class apart from your DD. Are you sure everyone else was invited? If so, and iF it was done in school I would definitly mention it to the head or class teacher. I think most schools would frown on this.

Hi Paranoid

Sorry your olive branch got broke!

Maybe they just don't get on (d'oh - obviously) - many years ago before more dcs and not working I taught a class where 2 girls just couldn't see eye to eye (ok they really didn't like each other either) No real reason, they just didn't get on. Now in adult life you could get away from the situation, but at school you're stuck. I tried to remind them that it was OK not to necessarily be 'best friends' but they needed to learn to be civil to one another (not ignore/avoid as that then causes other problems - like the 'I have to stay away from you' ishoos and 'hey everyone - come be MY friend, not HERS...')

I am suprised the school appears to be doing so little about this as it is clearly making you dd very unhappy and is not particularly pleasant for anyone involved, hence asking if you had seen copies of the antibullying policy and maybe a discipline policy and behaviour policy.

Our FLO (Family Liaison Officer) used to be great with ishoos like this as they have the time to look into ways of helping the kids cope with things like this and (possibly for the other girl, possibly for both) be nicer to each other.

What staff do they have on the playground as it appears to be when these events are occuring? Is there a TA who does playground duty or MDA's who need to be brought upto speed, so they can keep an eye on both of them?

Paranoid you did the right thing for your dd.

We are in a similar situation, there is a girl in dd1 class who, after being friends, has took a dislike to dd1 ,but we are fortunate that things have never got physical.

Last term I had to speak to the teacher as this child decided to follow dd round saying she was fat (dd is total opposite to fat) and she was relentless, dd started to believe that she was fat and would come out of class in tears.

After I'd been into school the other mum wouldn't speak to me and would turn her back on me in the playground.

I've encouraged dd to make new friends and she is happy now but I'm the one no one speaks to now!

If I were another parent in that class and I knew that only one girl hadn't been invited, I certainly wouldn't be letting my child go to that party!

Absolutely awful behaviour by the parent, she seems like a bully herself.

At our school you are only allowed to give out invitations at school if they are to the whole class, if not, and only a few are invited, then you have to give them out away from school discreetly.

I would mention it to the school, as to me it is just another way of bullying your daughter.

Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply. I was so worried that I had made things worse for DD. I can see it a bit clearer now. I need to remember that I done what I felt was right for my DD at the time. I should also say I agreed this course of action with my DD. At the end of last year I think she would have agreed to anything to make it stop.

I have never spoken about this to any other parent in the playground. I never mention it all. I just stand my ground and speak to whoever is around etc. I am generally happy go lucky and happy to chat to who is next to me!

So sorry to hear others have experienced the same problem. I was so close to moving DD too. Believe it or not she doesn't want to move, so at the moment I don't want to force it on her. I have another DD at this school who is thriving. They are very close and I wouldn't want them separated. I am glad that moving schools worked for you. We also have the issue that it is a faith school, which is important to us. The nearest other faith school is quite far away and would make work difficult.

I am not 100% sure it was the whole class. The classes are split, and the invites were certainly given to all those in class with DD. it was this she had to watch. Apologies, if I didn't make this clear. I would assume (given the amount of invites she had) that it will be all the children in their 'social circle' so to speak, at the very least.

It's interesting to hear some say the mother may be trying to do what she thinks is best. I struggle to see this. Why won't she speak to me? Why does she stare at me, then turn her back? Why do what she done about the party? I understand that she may be extremely upset by the bullying allegation, but if she refuses to speak to me, then how can it get resolved. I understand there are two sides to every story. I have had DD over hot coals on more than one occasion trying to get to the bottom of things. Every time I speak to the teacher/head I always ask if my DD is telling me the truth. Sometimes it isn't (not deliberate lies, just different interprations of a situation). DD has been punished when she has retaliated to this girl and she has been made to apologise. We have never been shown the same courtesy.

I know the school are watching the situation, but I just can't see an end to it. I also, haven't told DD to not go near this child. I have told to walk away if she is being mean. In a small school I feel total avoidance is extremely hard to police, and could create divisions in the year group.

You did the right thing. It may stop the physical if not mental side (like the invite thing) but at least they wont be burying their heads in the sand about it at the school any more. I'd say its worth mentioning so they can keep their eye in about it.

I was bullied horribly at school, but all mentally. The school and my parents buried their heads in the sand. It wasn't until it became physical that anyone stepped in. I'm still a little bit bitter towards my school and parents. School especially, as I wasn't the first child that the particular group of person had done this too or to have complained against them. My mother did go mad after the physical incident, but I still feel a little let down that it took it to go that far first.

I can sympathise fully. I have had the same problem for 2 years and it has placed considerable stress on the family.

My best advice would be to not worry about the other parent. Regardless of who is right and wrong, she will protect her own daughter and you will never gain anything from that situation.

However, I also made the same mistake of sitting my DD down and digging for info. The problem with this is that it became a bit of a drama at home and the littlest thing started to bother her and she would come home and do the crying etc. It was horrible what was happening to her but I found the more we relaxed and stopped asking, the less she seemed effected by it all.

We ended up taking the very clear line of stay away or walk away. We stopped punishing her but would talk through why her actions could have been handled better. Giving her confidence through being supportive will stop her reacting like a victim and will give her the understanding to deal with it better.

OP, can I just say I don't think it's fair that you punish your daughter when she retaliates. That's teaching her that she cannot defend herself.

bellyjaby sorry to hear you are still affected by the 'mental bullying'. Before things turned violent, I know this child subjected DD to verbal abuse, social exclusion and many other things that weren't visible. I did complain. I did tell the school, but it is very very difficult to prove. They can keep an eye on it, but believe me, short of me following her around all day there is little that can be done. Perhaps this was the case with you?

checkin very wise words. A very good friend has said the same. There is nothing to be gained through talking with the mother, other than for me to vent and she isn't going to let me do that!

I too have tried to stop asking DD if everything is OK. she was at a stage, where she was telling me things like 'she wouldn't look at me in assembly'! It was then difficult to pick out what was relevant and what wasn't. Your pst is very helpful. Thank you for your wise words. Hope things are better for your DD.

very it was premeditated, she stored it up, told no one, then retaliated 24 hours later. We felt we needed to deal with it.

You are a good mum. I was your DD once :( it gets better, you can promise her that!
As someone who was bullied, I would be hopping MAD if I even suspected my child of bullying someone else. They certainly wouldn't be getting a party until they learnt that you don't treat people like that, however 'odd' they seem or however much you don't get on.
The other mother sounds obnoxious - I cannot imagine where her DD gets it from rolls eyes

That's fair enough ParanoidAnnie; I thought you meant you were punishing her if the other girl said something horrible to her and she said something back.

Can you have a look at the school's bullying policy and see what it says about party invites?

My DD's school banned handing them out on school property which means that in a situation like yours, the child being excluded doesn't even realise. (It also means that if a parent can't afford to invite everyone in the class, this isn't obvious either)

If that clause is in the policy, you can point it out to the head teacher and ask them to pull the other mum up on it. Whether she's hearing a different story from her DD or not, she shouldn't be enabling further bullying behaviour (even if she believes it is justified) and a word from the HT might get her to pull her horns in.

ParanoidAnnie, I think what the parent has done really does give an example that bullying exists in all stages and walks of life whether it is intentional or not. Giving the tools to help her deal with it now will ensure that she becomes a confident adult.

The school are on the process of rewriting their bullying policy imnotcrazy erm....

Checkin, I think that's what surprised me the most - how her mum reacted. Asknitfast says, if my child was even suspected of bullying, I would want it dealt with. I think I would approach the parents firstly to apologise, then hear their side of the story. Quite naively I thought this is what would happen. How wrong I was. Behaviour breeds behaviour, I suppose.

Some parents just do not want to hear it I am afraid. When I tried to talk to the mother of DD's one I got stopped immediately and told that her daughter did not lie to her and that was the end of it. It was pointless going there.

I know it is hard but the best way forward is to stop your daughter feeling bullied. Once she is at the stage where she doesn't care about the other girl, the other girl can say anything and your daughter will think it pathetic.

For the physical side of things just drum into your DD that she must ensure not to find herself in a position where she is alone with this girl. If something does happen there can be witnesses.

I did find the balance extremely hard to find. You have to be supportive but not get caught up in the drama at the same time.

had similar but nowhere near as bad with dd, she ended up school refuser - moved schools and all was sorted :)

look for a head teacher that takes this seriously

good luck

ParanoidAnnie - when i say mental, this is what my school termed anything that wasn't physical. I think it was their way of distancing it. So I had all the verbal abuse etc. I've blocked a lot out, so I'm not really sure why it wasn't dealt with in primary school but as it was left it was horrific come teenage time. The teachers in secondary school wouldn't do anything unless the verbal stuff included swear words. In more recent years one of my teachers who did step in during his lessons moved into the same social circle as my father. I asked him once why the other's buried their heads the way they did. He told me a lot of the teachers were scared of this group. I think its far better to start nipping this action in the butt as young as possible before it gets that far.

I'm generally fine now as an adult, just have a bit of residual bitterness over it getting to where it did, a slight disrespect of authority and I find trusting hard. But I do get to look at where they are and where I am now, and I'm in a far better place than all of them. One recently apologised to me and was asking me loads of questions about my life. He was quite shocked that, whilst he knew and remembered a lot about me, all I knew and remembered was he was a nasty person. It really upset him (for not the first time apparently, he'd been discovering this a lot as he'd taken to repenting to all the people he bullied at the time).

Also my mum is a headteacher and she told DD that if her bully came up to her in the playground then to shout as loud as possible "GO AWAY" not only would it take bully back a bit, it would alert dinner ladies to a situation.

No you have to fight your child's corner. The mums behaviour is also bullying. It clearly runs in their family!

I think the most important thing here is that your DD knows you are on her side. You are supporting her 100% whilst still teaching her right from wrong.

I was bullied at school by some horrible girls and my mum was always there for me every step of the way, it meant so much and I have never ever forgotten it. We had a situation crop up at my DDs school and I did much the same as you are doing. I watched it carefully, talked to my DD and then eventually went in and read the riot act to the school. The mum sounds as childish as the daughter to be honest.

Interestingly enough, I saw one of my bullies years later while I was just out shopping and she came over to me to apologise for her behaviour and said that it has haunted her for years!

Why won't she speak to me? Why does she stare at me, then turn her back? Why do what she done about the party? I understand that she may be extremely upset by the bullying allegation, but if she refuses to speak to me, then how can it get resolved.

Because she's an idiot! I am in the same situation, except that the other boy's mother was actually my friend, and she stood there for 15 minutes ranting at me, and has now ignored me since November of last year. I regret that the situation has come to this, but I do not and will not regret standing up for my DS.

It's very rare for a child to only ever bully one child, they are usually aggressive towards others as well, so you are probably not the only parent who is feeling like this.

checkin thanks for your great advice. The school have also told DD to shout loudly if confronted by this child. DD can sometimes be her worst enemy, she desperately wants to be accepted and can be a bit 'in your face'. Not an excuse for bullying though.

After listening to all of you, I feel reassured that I am doing the right thing. In the short term it is going to be hard for DD. She can hold her head high though, which I don't think the other child can do. My DD makes me feel very proud.

chitchat sounds like a very similar situation. Hope things are OK for your DS now.

To be honest, I just said to DH, I don't care if the mother ignores me forever, so long as her DD leaves mine alone.

bellyjaby so sorry for your situation at school. The plus side is that schools take these things more seriously now.