Facial piercings and looking for work, AIBU to think that they do matter.

[RosesAreBetter]

A good friend of mine has quite a few unusual facial piercings, but she doesn't wear metal jewellery in them, most of the time she just wears clear retainers.
But still the piercings are quite obvious.

She has recently been told that she is going to be made redundant and had been looking for another job, but is struggling because most employers take one look at her and say she will have to take out the piercings or she won't even get an interview (her words).

I have just listened to her rant for an hour about how unfair it is.
She is a lovely person, really pretty and friendly. And she is definitely qualified for the jobs she is applying for, BUT she should accept that most employers are not going to be impressed by multiple unusual facia piercings, no matter how hidden they are by the clear jewellery.

She thinks that it since she wears retainers they should not be an issue.

She is 29, almost all of the piercings can not be taken out for more than a few minutes before the begin to heal (so taking them our for work would b impossible).
She has had most of them for over a decade and thinks they are acceptable with retainers in them.
Tbh most of them are virtually invisible. They just look like scars. And I they would look almost exactly the same without the platic retainers in as the scars will still be there.

But at the end of the day she chose to get them/chooses to keep them so she can't expect them not to be an issue.

I would like to ask again, did Mutoid Waste - who put on the spectacular show at the Paralympics Closing Ceremony last night - get where they are today by trying to conform to the mainstream?

Should someone have had a little chat with them when they started up about how what they were doing was not "the real world"?

Should they have shaved their dreads, taken out their piercings and got a real job?

Well, should they?

I just think that facial piercings limit your employment opportunities in a way not having piercing doesn't.
Yes piercings are fine if you want to work with a group like Mutoid Waste, but get the job first then get your piercings.
If Nicola Benedetti now got facial piercings I doubt it would harm her career, however if she had had them years before when playing second violin in a large orchestra it may have stopped her becoming the famous Nicola Benedetti.
Very few employers will discriminate against someone because they don't have piercings or tattoos.

There are situations which welcome the artistic, individual people in life. Having a piercing or 5, does not guarantee that you will have these skills but you might be tolerated more in that area of work.

I have no issue with tattoos or piercings - not my thing at all but they are not infectious so I feel I can mingle safely
...however they would not be admired by service users in my workplace (if visible) and thus your chance of landing a job is small.

It's no different to employing someone because they dress in business suits vs a scruff. Now I am a scruff (relatively) but that is acceptable at my work - no power suits... just smart skirts/trousers and no revealing outfits. I wouldn't go for a power suit type job without dressing up in a power suit

Nicola who?
Famous you say?

Hilarious!

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

Mutoid Waste came out of the squat / punk / acid / techno scenes of the 80s and 90s. They've been living outside of mainstream society for decades, turning up at festivals with mental art machines made out of mig fighter jets, doctored cars and other bits of junk.

And the art they do is brilliant (as you may have seen last night).

You don't apply to work with them like you might apply for a job in a bank, then get some piercings. That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.

FWIW I don't disagree with the statement "I just think that facial piercings limit your employment opportunities in a way not having piercing doesn't". Of course it does.

What I'm objecting to is the ridiculous prejudice and generalisations about a person's character because they have piercings and/or tattoos.

"People who are very keen on expressing their own "individuality" often aren't good team members and good at recognising that someone else's view is as valid as their view."

^ This.

Don't get why you've brought Mutoid Waste into it. They have shunned the "normal" society which the OP's friend is actively embracing. Yeah they're successful in an alternative society where having a 9-5 job isn't seen as desirable or important, but they're also working with people who would feel that body mods are nothing out of the ordinary. You're not setting yourself apart by going all-out with modifications, like you might with the same appearance in an office selling printer toner. Which I think is what 2rebecca is saying, quite well IMHO.

I brought Mutoid Waste into it as an example of how you can be highly successful without conforming to the mainstream. It wasn't a direct response to the OP.

Thanks for giving the example the person in the office selling printer toner. My point about people like that is that they seem out of the ordinary to you, in a work environment, but in their social sphere they might not feel out of the ordinary at all. They might not see themselves as very keen on "expressing their own individuality" - it's possible they may actually be conforming, within their peer group! I'm not saying all people with piercings are actually conformists, but that you can't assume you know what motivates them.

Sorry to harp on about the same point but you really seem to be missing it.

2rebecca and others who have let their prejudices show are talking absolute nonsense when they make sweeping generalisations about people like the following:

"People who are very keen on expressing their own "individuality" often aren't good team members and good at recognising that someone else's view is as valid as their view."

It's so narrow minded.

What I'm objecting to is the ridiculous prejudice and generalisations about a person's character because they have piercings and/or tattoos.

But the very fact that this prejudice does exist is the reason we are having this conversation. I think you are missing the point aufaniae. Your example of Mutoid Waste is an extreme one. In my (boring) world extreme facial piercings are viewed as unusual. That is a fact of life.

Incidentally we do sell printer toner

The world probably won't change overnight on this. Appearance impacts on employability in most jobs. There is much conservatism In employment. I think that if you employ someone with piercings and subsequently have problems with them others will question your judgement in the first place.

I have sympathy foryourfriend but we all have to live in the world as it is and it isn't perfect.

Shrug, it shouldn't matter, but it clearly does.

So the friend can either conform and get a job, find a job where it isn't a problem, or take them out.

You have to deal with the world how it is not how it should be.

When I am interviewing, whether the piercings would be a problem or not depends on the role.

Back office? No worries, don't care. Reception/client facing? Not a chance.

Because I am there to make money for my business so they can keep putting money in my account and the fact is that client's don't like it so they won't give us their money so I won't hire someone who will mean less money.

She'll just have to look harder than most for a job, or move to an area where it'd less of an issue, or become self-employed. Yes, it's annoying that the majority of people judge on appearances, but that's the reality of our society and the current job market. Let's hope she has unique skills to go along with her unique appearance.

Nope, I still think you're missing the point!

"In my (boring) world extreme facial piercings are viewed as unusual. That is a fact of life."

Absolutely, I agree! Of course they are, I'm not debating that in the slightest.

My point is that it's not OK to make sweeping generalisations about someone's character based on spurious claims about what motivates all people to get piercings.

I'm not saying people don't make such generalisations. Of course they do, and we have some of them on this thread. What I am saying is it's wrong to do so, and trying to get the posters here who have made assumptions about people with piercings to think a little more deeply about what they're saying. I'm trying to demonstrate that such ideas have no basis in fact.

It's precisely because there are people on this thread who seem to think they know what a person is like just because they have some piercings that I think this is an appropriate place to challenge those views.

How does this sound to you? ...

"Women who want to leave the house to work are very keen on expressing their own "individuality" and often aren't good team members and good at recognising that someone else's view is as valid as their view."

"Women who wear trousers are very keen on expressing their own "individuality" and often aren't good team members and good at recognising that someone else's view is as valid as their view."

"Men who don't wear a shirt and tie to work are very keen on expressing their own "individuality" often aren't good team members and good at recognising that someone else's view is as valid as their view."

All (hopefully!) outdated views.

Can you see what I'm getting at now?

No. I can't see your point.

It's what Morloth said You have to deal with the world how it is not how it should be.

What a defeatist attitude!

Should women who wanted to work at the beginning of the last century have said, "let's not bother, we have to deal with the world how it is not how it should be."

How about women who wanted to wear trousers, or vote?

How about non-white people who wanted to be considered for jobs on an equal footing with white people, but stood no chance, say 60 years ago? Should they have all said "let's not try to challenge this, we have to deal with the world how it is not how it should be."

If we all took your attitude we'd still be chained to the kitchen sink while our husbands go out to work, in a country where non-white people shouldn't aspire to achieve.

Attitudes change over time, it's progress! And it happens by people challenging the status quo.

And when people are making ridiculous and unfounded generalisations about a whole group of society, they're inviting comment IMO.

(Not that we've reached genuine equal ops these days, but it's a darn site better than it was!)

Yes yes, that is all great.

But in this case, this woman needs a job.

Having piercings is inhibiting that.

As I said, I would not hire someone for a front facing role with excessive piercings, because I know my clients and they won't like it. If they don't like something, they don't give me money. I go to work to get money, that is it really.

Business is about the money.

Morloth, I wasn't addressing the OP directly, she's had lots of good advice here from other posters.

I was addressing specifically those posters who were airing their prejudices on this thread.

Ah, fair enough.

From a personal point of view, I don't give a damn what people do with their bodies.

Not my problem and therefore not my business. I find this attitude removes most of the angst from everyday life.

Very wise

I keep trying to work out what job a person would have to do for me to care about whether they have visible tattoos/piercings-and I may be naive but I can't see where it would matter to me.
I am white/30s/overweight/conservative dresser and I am thrilled when my 7 yr old DS gets a chance to know different people and ways of life.
At his German school he goes to the day care in afternoons (school only in morning) and of the 8 staff, 4 are young guys in their 20s who have piercings/long dreads/tattoos etc-they do a fantastic job (homework/extra curricular clubs/playing and chatting etc-the kids love them.
We went to a couple of fantasy conventions last year ( mostly to see the lovely Tom Felton!) and DS was enthralled by the myriad of different people, their costumes/piercings/tattoos etc and the fact that they were all without exception so kind to him when they saw his enthusiasm.
So no, I don't think people should have to conform and I think that there should be the same laws against discrimination as with racism/sexism etc-ability to do the job should be the only thing that matters.

And if it was law then it would level the playing field and people would be forced to get over their prejudices! IMO!

So lobby for a change in the law, because right now it just ain't gonna happen and if you want a job in a 'conservative' industry, then you need to look conservative.

Lots of jobs where it doesn't matter, and lots where it does.

Where would you draw the line? What about that guy in Lady Gaga's video with a full skull tattooed on his face?

I have a vision in the future of being forced to conduct interviews blindfolded...

Your comparision with racsim and sexism - sex and race are not a matter of choice. Piercings are.

It's also a matter of choice about how you feel about them