Facial piercings and looking for work, AIBU to think that they do matter.

[RosesAreBetter]

A good friend of mine has quite a few unusual facial piercings, but she doesn't wear metal jewellery in them, most of the time she just wears clear retainers.
But still the piercings are quite obvious.

She has recently been told that she is going to be made redundant and had been looking for another job, but is struggling because most employers take one look at her and say she will have to take out the piercings or she won't even get an interview (her words).

I have just listened to her rant for an hour about how unfair it is.
She is a lovely person, really pretty and friendly. And she is definitely qualified for the jobs she is applying for, BUT she should accept that most employers are not going to be impressed by multiple unusual facia piercings, no matter how hidden they are by the clear jewellery.

She thinks that it since she wears retainers they should not be an issue.

She is 29, almost all of the piercings can not be taken out for more than a few minutes before the begin to heal (so taking them our for work would b impossible).
She has had most of them for over a decade and thinks they are acceptable with retainers in them.
Tbh most of them are virtually invisible. They just look like scars. And I they would look almost exactly the same without the platic retainers in as the scars will still be there.

But at the end of the day she chose to get them/chooses to keep them so she can't expect them not to be an issue.

I find some of the attitudes towards piercings here really bizarre - "defacing yourself", "piercings speak volumes about their personal attitude to life which is 'I dont care'", "extremist" - would it be safe to assume that this also applies to ear lobe piercings and other forms of self-decoration such as wearing a necklace, bracelet or ring?

We appear to have ascribed certain attributes to jewellery on particular bits of the body, but not others. Ear lobes = socially acceptable. Lip = deviant behaviour.

Why?

I've had my lip pierced for over 2 years, i take it out for my shift and put it back in after. it goes back in fine. Does she have tunnels? thats quite easily solved, i go to work i put plugs in rather than tunnels so they just look like big studs.

i do find it funny that people say they would be "put off" by a check out girlwith bright hair?! why?! i had very bright red hair working at tesco and i had nothign but positive comments! The only things i have on show at work now are my sleeve on my left arm and again it gets lovely comments, mainly from older customers as it goes!

i cant see facial piercings closing up within "mins" though she'll just have to take them out during her shift and put them in when she is home. no big deal.

i also think it says a lot more about the judgey pants people who look at tattooed/pierced folk down at their nose than someone with two full sleeves and a huge chest piece. I've been brought up to believe not to judge on appearance so i don't.

I think it depends on the age of the person. 29 is getting on a bit to be still having facial piercings.

I have tattoos, does that automatically mean I am a shit nurse who does not care about her job or patients?
what a silly argument.

I think facial piercings indicate a contrived sort of conformism.

I mean, the first person who stuck a piece of metal through their eyebrow - sure, you were pretty out there. Everyone else? Not so much...

But if the policy is no piercings and you go with piercings to interview it would make me think that either

They haven't researched our policy
They must not think the policy applies to them
They must not be bothered about sticking to policy

I have asmall silver ball on my medusa piercing. It is tiny and not very noticeable unless you're really looking at my mouth. I love it but some employers don't and that's fine. While I would love them to overlook it or be fine with a retainer, most are not. I make my choice to either take it out or not go for the job.

I've had mine for four years and I had to take it out during surgery after the birth of DD2. I lost the bar and by the time I had put it back in three weeks later the hole had started to heal and I had to literally repierce it with a blunt bar. I wear mine all the time now and while my current boss has no problem with it, no doubr future bosses will and I will have to make a decision.

Another thing is even if she takes them out, certain ones especially will leave big permanent scars,

So we're not talking about piercings that are small enough that she could put retainers in and then they would be invisible.

She willingly chose to permanently modify her face in a way that lots (although by no means all) of employers find objectionable. And she did this not once but multiple times. And now she's finding that, gosh, lots of employers are put off.

She chose to put her self-expression at a higher priority than her employability. Fair enough. This is an entirely foreseeable consequence of her choices.

Someone has slightly misinterpreted what I meant about my "take me as I am, if they don't like it, stuff them" friend. Yes, I think she should take her piercings out when doing a CV drop or going to an interview to make a good impression, however, I do not mean that she 'doesn't care' about her potential employer. I meant that she thinks if people don't accept her for her appearance, then why would she want to work for someone who couldn't look past that? I agree with her principal but not her practice. I still stand by my erring on the side of caution statement, until you know your employer.

Incidentally, my friend is a talented illustrator and hasn't lost jobs because of her appearance, but as work is freelance and the market is slow with much competition, she had to get an 'ordinary' shop job to supplement her salary. The one which eventually hired her was a nationwide health and beauty retailer, which you may think would require her to look impeccably groomed and regular looking, but clearly they had seen her CV and noted that she was a grafter so it didn't matter.

A member of the mental health team who worked with a family member was heavily pierced and tattooed. As a relative, I didn't think for a moment that this person shouldn't be around my family member or that he was incapable of doing his job. He was hired for his abilities was he not? Someone added that they wouldn't let a teacher with a Cheryl Cole style hand tattoo near their kids. That is a bit ridiculous, if the kid sees the tattoo and asks questions, then I would start an open discussion about difference and self expression, instead of pointing out how horrible it is. I have seen some truly godawful tattoos on people, but who am I to judge, they have to live with it if it was a mistake, but it could also mean something very special to them and they are proud of it.

It might be hard for some people to take 'alternative' looking people seriously, but I'll be interested to know what happens in future, when tattoos/piercings are widely accepted, and the next new trend comes along. Will the tattooed/pierced people do the judging? I hope not. I don't judge people who trowel on masses of orangu-tan and wear loads of makeup and fake hair. I think it looks gross, but the person could be lovely.

I think it is terrible that people are judged on their appearance rather than their ability to do their job period.

I am just plain ugly and that is enough to make me less employable than someone more attractive.

Wouldn't it be great if instead of saying, hey I wouldn't employ anyone showing the least signs of a lack of conformity to the norm, we made it illegal to judge people on anything other than their ability to do the job in hand?

ICBINEG great respsonse, I agree. Someone I know applied for a professional job in France, where she was told she would have to put a passport photo on her CV, and state her marital status! That is pretty shocking from an equal ops standpoint. Anyone remotely different wouldn't stand a chance, no matter what their employment history or experience. Shame.

The really weird thing is that in so many jobs people actually want someone with a bit of 'added value' or difference about them. They want someone with a bit of creativity and personality.

The job I ended up in, I can actually imagine discrimination against carbon copies with their perfect make up and business suits and straightened hair...if you are incapable/too scared of coming up with a look at least a bit unique to you then we probably aren't that interested.

It pisses me off that there is this assumption that people will not want mortgage advice from someone with piercings. I would rather talk to anyone about anything if they had even the slightest bit of 'real person' (as opposed to cut out of a magazine) about them.

"ErrorError I like your attitude."

I agree. I think that going to an interview with "in your face" personal adornment just gives the impression that you can't be bothered to make an effort for the interview and that you don't really want the job. I don't care how people adorn themselves (although I don't find facial piercings attractive, but who am I to talk as I am no oil painting myself), but for an interview you need to give the impression that you are genuinely interested in the job.

I think there is a difference in wearing piercings to an interview and wearing them to work once you have got the job.

I agree with the analogy about selling a house. We looked round some right old tips when we first moved to this area and, on being asked by the estate agent what we thought, I always replied that the owners didn't seem keen to sell their house.

Sometimes you have to swallow your principles when job hunting/house selling to get results.

I think with unusual facial piercings as an employer I'd be more concerned about the sort of personality that someone who chose alot of facial piercings had rather than the piercings themselves.
It is a bit "my desire for self expression is more important than the fact that my appearance may intimidate other people or my ability to get a job".
It seems very vain and appearance focussed to me, and would suggest a personality who put herself before other people.
People who are very keen on expressing their own "individuality" often aren't good team members and good at recognising that someone else's view is as valid as their view.
Yes that is judging someone by their surface, but I think if you have unusual facial piercings or visual tattoes you are saying to other people that you want to be judged by your surface appearance and your surface appearance is very important to you and you feel you are "different".

2rebecca sorry but what utter nonsense!

The vast majority of my friends have tattoos and piercings. I'm in the minority in not having any (except my nose ring which fell out years ago).

Amongst the people we know it's totally normal. It's seen as creative and expressive but certainly not about individuality above all else - everyone we know has got them so how could it be?

"People who are very keen on expressing their own "individuality" often aren't good team members and good at recognising that someone else's view is as valid as their view."

Sorry but PMSL!

I know many hard-grafters, team players and highly intelligent, accomplished people amongst my "decorated" friends. Let me see, their jobs include senior managers; several teachers; a senior civil servant; many medical professionals including: paramedic, nurses, consultant, consultant surgeon, consultant paediatrician; a handful of lawyers including a international human rights lawyer working with the UN.

Reckon they all need to be able to work with other people!

Do you actually know many people with body art and piercings or are you just airing your prejudices?

"2rebecca sorry but what utter nonsense!"

I'm sorry, but I think 2rebecca has summed up the real world very well. In my line of work I just don't see anyone with multiple facial piercings. Even our designers in the studio don't have them - tattoos yes, but not lots of facial piercings. I work in a rather conservative business area though.

I have never met a medical professional, social worker, teacher or international human rights lawyer with multiple facial piercings either. Perhaps it is a regional thing then (we live in rural South Yorkshire and work in Sheffield)

There are very few people with unusual multiple facial piercings and uncoverable tattoes in my geographic area which is why I made the comments I did, someone having them would be making a big statement.
Other employers in other geographical areas may have different opinions.

People get piercings for all sorts of reasons though, for some it's tradition/religion (think Hindu nose rings), other people like a bit of pain, some just think it looks cool and that's that, and a few are genuinely addicted to getting them. Each one of my piercings has a little story or is a little celebration of something in my life. My lip piercing was done in defiance to something not so pleasant, but I feel confident when I wear it. However, I'm a reasonable person and think you have to still respect that some people aren't comfortable looking at them. My mum hates mine but has accepted them because she loves me. People that don't know you may not be so accepting.

When I take my lip ring out, it's a little round hole that looks like a freckle, and not a huge scar. My studless nose just looks like it has one slightly enlarged pore, and all my ear piercings are usually covered with hair. It's very simple to tone down your appearance for professional reasons. Even if company policy said piercings/tattoos were fine, I'd still take them out for interview.

I'm 26 so in my social life I want to enjoy my piercings while I'm still young enough to get away with them. I did dye over my fluoro-purple hair, and regret it a bit because if I get another job with a more natural colour, I'll feel less able to dye it wacky again without people thinking I've suddenly had a personality transplant. I can't imagine I'll be a punky granny though!

YANBU - I think to many employers they still do matter. I like a lot of piercings and I have 9 myself, but I still recognise that highly visible piercings and tattoos can limit your job prospects.

There's a vast difference in having these types of body art in the first place and knowing when they're appropriate to wear/display. I fucking love bikinis but I doubt I would've got my job in insurance if I'd gone to my interview wearing one. There's a certain arrogance in rolling up to meet a prospective without tailoring your appearance to meet the role. It's just as important as doing your research or making sure you're on time.

"It seems very vain and appearance focussed to me, and would suggest a personality who put herself before other people."

So would you be happy that someone who was immaculate at all times and obviously put a lot of time and effort into her entirely conventional personal appearance wasn't vain and appearance focussed??
When I started work women didn't wear trousers,at least not in my field.I expect there were people out there saying they'd never employ a woman who wore trousers,shocking disregard for suitable work attire,too much desire for individuality...

I have ten piercings - one on each earlobe with earrings in at all times, two in each earlobe that are normally empty, extra one in right earlobe, right conch and tragus, nose, upper lip. I don't look extreme. My hair is around my collar and a colour that, while not my natural one, occurs in nature as a colour for human hair. I'm at the formal end of the dress spectrum at work, because I like that aesthetic and wouldn't get a chance to wear it otherwise. My employers don't give a flying fuck about the metalwork provided I impart the required knowledge to students, and I don't get the impression said students are intimidated by me more so than anyone else who has to occasionally remind them to behave like adults.

You're missing my point. It might seem odd / different to you.

But the chances are that piercings or tattoos may actually not seem that odd or different to the person who has them, especially as they may well be part of a social group / sub-culture where pretty much everyone has them.

I was trying to demonstrate how ridiculous this sweeping statement is:

"People who are very keen on expressing their own "individuality" often aren't good team members and good at recognising that someone else's view is as valid as their view."

"When I started work women didn't wear trousers,at least not in my field.I expect there were people out there saying they'd never employ a woman who wore trousers,shocking disregard for suitable work attire,too much desire for individuality..."

Well, exactly!