To think every woman who wants it should be offered birth de brief anyway?

[elizaregina]

I say this because FIVE years after my labour which left me in immense pain, esp in my back turns out was back to back!

All these years I have been bleating on how painful it was - turns out it was probably more painful than a normal facing baby. Atlough I am sure some would disagree who have had both, for me I hardly felt anything in front just baclk.

I just dont know why this wasnt clearly communitcated to me in labour.

People may say " Yes well what could they do?"

Maybe nothing except - all of us aknowledge maybe this labour was going to be more painful, maybe help me by giving me the epidural I asked for - and also after I would have known I was exposed to more pain that perhaps is usual!!!

Also - at the end of the day its my bloody body - I have a basic right to know if my baby was back to back.

I think ALL women should be asked if they would like a de brief after this momentous occasions!!!! Also perhaps a de brief would be a good time to get feedback on how it went and how they were treated? Whilst its all still fresh?

seems fair enough to me. i'd want the mum to have a written version too and chance to make her own comments on it.

I kind of agree with you but they couldn't have known it was back to back until the head came out facing upwards. I remember repeatedly asking "how much longer" it seemed like a reasonable question to me, I was pushing, DD's head could be seen but actually some people have baby 2 pushes later and some are still pushing an hour later.

All women do have access to a debrief, they just need to ask for one. They are offered after unusual or particularly traumatic delivery but they are available to anyone.

Happy

I was told they can feel for soft spots on the head whilst doing an internal, and on my notes it seems they worked out she was half way through, and i did start off - going on and on about this pain in lower back and were they sure it was normal.

I didnt realise we could all ask for one, this needs to printed in large letters and made very clear and known to all.

Good ideas in theory, but they are understaffed as it is...

I also think scanning machines should be routine as well in labour or more widley available - the doc who saw me the other day had a small machine like a lap top on wheels - where she had a quick look at baby.

Wouldnt it all be made much easier and safer if MW's were trained to look for the basics - back to back - breech - placenta - cord round neck....and get cheap machines to simply check rather than all this guessing!

Tiny

Good ideas in theory, but they are understaffed as it is...

Alot of the practises though only tend to lead to more work in the long run and more drain on resources.

You have no idea how understaffed they are as it is.

I do actually I have a very good idea!!

Where do you suppose they get the time from then? They haven't enough as it is.

my midwife could tell dd1 was back to back just by examining my bump at my 36 week appointment and confirmed it at every appointment thereafter. no scan necessary. I would have thought a halfway experienced midwife could do the same.

in the end dd1 spun back into the correct position at the very end. it its fairly common apparently.

It's a nice idea, and it would be great if it could happen, but I can't even begin to imagine how much it would cost.

The cost would be huge, for relatively very little benefit. If individuals want to talk about their birth ecause there was a problem, the that can already be arranged.

It baffles me as to why someone would want to inflict such a big cost on the NHS without a particularly strong reason when there are so many patients who are actually ill that aren't getting what they need.

That happened to me too EntWife. My baby turned while I was in labour, but he probably wouldn't have done if I'd had to have scans. Even being monitored was a nightmare because I needed to contort myself into the right positions to allow him to turn.

I think it is a good idea if it was workable cost wise (which I appreciate, it isn't)

I had such a traumatic birth with DS, I would tell anyone who would listen about it for ages afterwards. I just really felt hard done by and needed someone to explain why I was left pushing a baby out on my own (amongst many other things).

I wonder if it's something that could be done by trained volunteers who can understand the midwifes notes.

I think it's unfair to accuse the OP of trying to waste NHS time. I don't think that's what she's getting at.

Yes but we didnt seem to know mine was back to back, so i wasnt allowed the privaliged of contorting to get her into the right postion because they didnt know.

lots of women on here have also mentioned have elcs and then it turning out the baby was un diagnosed breech or placenta pravia etc..

It baffles me as to why someone would want to inflict such a big cost on the NHS without a particularly strong reason when there are so many patients who are actually ill that aren't getting what they need.

The NHS is not efficient.

My visits and my observations have shown this.

The system isnt stream lined.

There are many many areas where first of all costs could be cut and reduced, the main one being health tourists - who are costing us tens of millions of pounds. The second is to simply get a grasp on immigration.

My area has been one of the worst hit - and the hospitals are in crisis. they simpy cannot cope with the numbers of women giving birth and I dont see why we should expect them too.

If we cant afford to build new hospitals - if we have a midwife crisis - why are we allowing tens of thousands of people to come here to use those servives we do have that cant cope?

If we dont have money to simply offer all women a de brief of the birth should they want it - if we cant afford to simply train more MW to understand a simple scan for main problem areas....then how can we afford to pay £50 an hour and MUCH MORE for interpreters? How can we afford to cope with ladies who turn up in labour to hospitals with no notes and then have to quickly rush round - getting in interpreters - trying to do bloods etc?

My second was back to back, my midwife could tell in the run up to the birth. I ended up transfered to hospital mid labour (I was having a home birth) but that was because of myconium in my waters.

I did get through 3 canisters of gas and air though! But in comparision to my first labour it wasn't as traumatic.

But I agree, some kind of de brief would have been very useful for both of my births

OP - how/why have you turned your perfectly reasonable thread into a debate about immigration.

I defended you earlier but getting into what the NHS should and shouldn't fund is all a bit Daily Mail for me.

Good luck

Offering debriefings to all wouldn't help NHS efficiency, it would just put more pressure on already struggling services.

Nor would it do anything to help the problem that is NHS tourism, or the cost of translators for women who are perfectly entitled to give birth her but that can't speak the language.

I find it quite disgusting actually that you are asking for more time to talk about you labour after it happend and you have a healthy baby in the same breath as wanting to deny another woman the opportunity to even be able to communicate during her labour!

They should write it all down and offer it to women...and Freddos how on earth is it "disgusting" to want to know what happened to you?? Many women are far too out of it to be aware!

I've had 3 back to back labours. It's just a part of it.

I do sometimes think its all blown up to be a bigger deal than it needs to be. Childbirth is painful, hard work, can be shocking and distressing. But thats reality. I think somewhere down the road the idea that it should be lovely and a great experience was sold to us, and has given rise to high expectations, and unrealistic notions.

Of course some people have a terrible time which is outside the norm and should be looked after appropriately, but I think we've lost sight of where that line is. And the idea of expecting already short-staffed midwives to sit around talking to you because you had a perfectly normal (b2b is still normal, and common) delivery is really quite daft.

I didn't say that was disgusting. Read the post property before you question it.

And Eliza, it wasn't a privelidge to be able to move into the positions I wanted to be in, it was just the same as any other active labour. It would have made no difference to that whether they had known ds1 was b2b or not.

you said you found it disgusting that she wanted to talk about it afterwards Freddo?

Becasue Tweasels resources being diverted to EU people are a very large cost. it makes me very angry when people say -

It baffles me as to why someone would want to inflict such a big cost on the NHS without a particularly strong reason when there are so many patients who are actually ill that aren't getting what they need.

If you want to talk about cost then why not consider the cost of the un trammled immigration.

I am sorry if it sounds a bit " daily mail " to you - to others its a daily " reality" that we have to live with. once good/ok hospitals have now failed

The biggest cost inflicted on our nhs is from thousands of people allowed to come here to use our NHS - some of them not paying some of them simply swamping services.

On my last visit - it took over two hours to get a trace on me due to reduced movement - during that time I heard extremly stressed MW coming out of a labour room desperalty on the phone requesting an interpreter urgently.

I know that interpreter will be earning themselves bottom line £40 - thats not the agency fees included.

A friend of mine works as an interpreter - she makes a fortune. So the NHS can afford her - but cant afford to simply offer a de brief to a lady who has had a baby!! THAT would cost the NHS too much and its selfish of me apprently to want to have them offer it!!

But its not selfish nor blind of our policiticans ot help everyone out and simply start to restrict immigration!

Talk to me of cost - I will talk about immigration.

NC, read the rest of the sentence ffs! You can't take something completely out of context and twist it to suit you.

Are you a red top journalist?

Simply offering a debrief would mean paying thousands more midwives just to have the 20 minute chat or whatever it is you want, without even beginning to touch the understaffing that affects women that are actually in labour!