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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think every woman who wants it should be offered birth de brief anyway?

72 replies

elizaregina · 08/09/2012 11:23

I say this because FIVE years after my labour which left me in immense pain, esp in my back turns out was back to back!

All these years I have been bleating on how painful it was - turns out it was probably more painful than a normal facing baby. Atlough I am sure some would disagree who have had both, for me I hardly felt anything in front just baclk.

I just dont know why this wasnt clearly communitcated to me in labour.

People may say " Yes well what could they do?"

Maybe nothing except - all of us aknowledge maybe this labour was going to be more painful, maybe help me by giving me the epidural I asked for - and also after I would have known I was exposed to more pain that perhaps is usual!!!

Also - at the end of the day its my bloody body - I have a basic right to know if my baby was back to back.

I think ALL women should be asked if they would like a de brief after this momentous occasions!!!! Also perhaps a de brief would be a good time to get feedback on how it went and how they were treated? Whilst its all still fresh?

OP posts:

Abody · 08/09/2012 14:23

Erm, yes it is wrong to have to gather up your life savings - if you're lucky enough to have any - in order to pay for treatment. I don't envy the American system, why didn't you go to a private hospital Eliza, if you're so in favour of paying?

HmmThinkingAboutIt · 08/09/2012 14:43

I take the view that understaffed shouldn't be a problem here, as if you let women get themselves worked up and upset about what they've been through - to the point that it affects their day to day life or their next pregnancy, its a false economy anyway. The costs of caring for distressed women with mental health issues resulting from poor care or lack of attention is high enough. I take issue with people who start on about "why don't you go private" because they don't understand this a problem that actually costs more money if it isn't being dealt with properly in the first place. That kind of attitude is very convenient head burying in the sand ignorance.

The cost savings in having debriefs easily available are therefore very arguable without the need to bring in immigration. And frankly I find doing so, just completely diverts attention from the REAL issue and most of the time really isn't a great deal more than deeply unpleasant bigotry. Its a red herring.

Abody · 08/09/2012 15:30

I think you misunderstood me hmmmmm, i didnt mean that at all, I've previously said all the things you just did. I shouldn't probably have brought up private health care, I was just objecting to the suggestion that they do things better in America, where everyone pays. Actually I realise now that what I said about going private made no sense really, sorry!

Abody · 08/09/2012 15:37

Actually, to be fair, if you're going to 'take issue' with me, you should notice I was arguing the very same point you've just accused me of missing, about it costing more in the long run! Never mind. There is a very good point to be made somewhere here about aftercare, but this thread is just a bit bizarre!

thebeesnees79 · 08/09/2012 15:41

yes I agree. I had to force a de brief after having my son, I was so traumatised by the birth and had post traumatic stress and pnd. It helped me knowing why the birth went the way it did and gave me some closure on it all.

elliejjtiny · 08/09/2012 15:58

With every birth I asked the midwife delivering them for a copy of the labour notes (partly because I was so high on gas and air I forget bits. Partly because I like to read them and sniff nostalgically ). Then when the community midwife came I asked her about anything I didn't understand. Total cost to the NHS - £1ish for photocopying, whatever 15 mins of the midwife's time cost.

Socknickingpixie · 08/09/2012 16:08

why on earth wouldnt you just read the delivery notes that they hand to you to take home?

and for many ladies back pain during labour is perfectly normal.b2b or not.

fwiw if something actually goes wrong or directly results in issues then a debrief can be very helpfull for all involved but what would be the point when no issues happened.

incidently a b2b birth that ends up with a normal delivery is not an issue.

Moominsarescary · 08/09/2012 16:18

Unless you are discharged 6 hours after birth I'd think at some point during your stay on the maternity ward you could ask the mw about your birth notes

thebeesnees79 · 08/09/2012 16:37

I had mine with the consultant and was told/recommended to by my gp & health visitor as I was so traumatised. I had a very.straight forward dare I say easy 6 hours of contractions and complications only happened at pushing stage when baby got stuck. I had an assisted delivery and it all went pear shaped, was very painful (had gas & air no epidural) & I felt my episiotomy plus the instrument being forced into me to pull the baby out.
My main problem was lack of communication, I was told nothing and that lead to tons of pain with no explanation. the de brief really helped me to move on and I felt less angry and resentful when everything was explained. the doctor who delivered my son was told off for lack of communication and care.

helenthemadex · 08/09/2012 16:49

It is a good idea for some women to have a debrief but sadly frequently there are not staff or time to do this

When I was a student I worked with a brilliant community midwife who on the first visit to the home following the birth would go through the woman's notes with her and ask if she had any questions or concerns, it was something the women seemed to appreciate and often questions were raised and dealt with.

I tried to do this when I started working, not really a debrief as such just an opportunity to discuss their birth and ask questions hopefully it helped some women

helenthemadex · 08/09/2012 16:52

oops posted before I finished

it also helped to ensure women who perhaps needed a proper debrief got it.

Sadly there frequently wasn't the time to sit and do this, I worked in a very busy unit where being short staffed was a frequent problem

jamdonut · 08/09/2012 16:59

I think it would be a good idea.
My DS2 was born with the cord around his neck.My DH said afterwards that it all got very scary, very suddenly, with a room full of people,and he was quite worried. I had no idea at all...the gas and air was doing its job too well. Afterwards I felt a bit distressed that I didn't know how touch and go it had all been. Luckily, as I worked in Medical Records at the hospital where my DS2 was born, they kindly copied my maternity notes for me to have,so that I had some idea of what went on,and that made me feel a bit better. I have no complaint about the treatment I received,but I think birth is traumatic for a lot of people,and a bit of time to look back on it does help.

NeedlesCuties · 08/09/2012 19:15

You're not BU to think that every women should have access to a de-brief, but this might take the form of an informal chat on the post-natal ward, or with Comm MW or GP. I don't know if every woman would want or need a formal sit down in a hospital after.

WhatYouLookingAt · 08/09/2012 19:18

"We know best, we know our own bodies" is clearly nonsense. You didn't know your baby was back to back, you couldn't tell. We don't know better than trained professionals who can see from the outside objectively and dispassionately.

nightowlmostly · 08/09/2012 21:01

I went for a debrief, which helped a lot. I had a 'normal' delivery, in quotes because for me, stirrups, an episiotomy, being strapped to monitors and a room full of people doesn't feel like the straightforward birth the word implies!

Yes everything turned out ok, but it all went wrong quite quickly and I didn't know why certain things happened the way they did, I was going over and over it in my head until I went for the debrief, it really helped me get over it. I didn't have PTSD or pnd but I was definitely traumatised by it.

Maybe we do have too high expectations of what birth will be like, but I guess people don't see the point in scaring first timers. I don't know how I'll answer any pregnant woman who asks me what it's like tbh! It hasn't put me off doing it again though, but I'm aware that I can't remember the pain properly any more, so that'll be a shock again!

mrsrosieb · 08/09/2012 21:13

My son was back to back and at over 10lb ended up being a mid cavity forceps extraction.

I did not mind the pain-it was probably the best experience of my life, so much so I cannot wait to be in labour with number 2.

I know this makes me unusual but I loved every minute.

nightowlmostly · 08/09/2012 21:24

To be honest when I think of my labour it isn't the pain that bothers me, it was all the other stuff! If it had been straightforward and calm then I wouldn't have felt the way I did, the pain itself wasn't the issue.

thebeesnees79 · 09/09/2012 11:09

well the pain of being cut into was an issue for me. I am no wimp as I went on to have my second baby with just gas & air. I also suffered a 1st degree tear which needed stitching but I refused. so I can cope with pain and wasn't traumatised after my second, when pain is excruciating and no one told me why that's how I ended up with ptsd

nightowlmostly · 09/09/2012 16:43

I suppose it's the not knowing why certain things happen or if things go wrong and nobody bothers to explain it. Those are the things tgat went round and round in my head for weeks after, until I went back for my debrief.

I don't think it's as easy as saying, well if your delivery was 'normal' then you don't need a debrief. It really does depend on how you feel about it as an individual. Someone else could have had the same experience I had, but it may not have affected them in the same way.

I also disagree that a quick chat directly after would suffice, I saw my midwife later on on the day but it was too soon, I'd barely got my head together yet. I needed to go away and think about stuff for a bit before I could go back with questions. You need a bit of time. Mainly because you don't even know it has affected you badly until you've been going over and over it in your head for weeks!

I have to thank MN actually, I wouldn't have known about debriefs if I hadn't been obsessing over the childbirth board for months!

nightowlmostly · 09/09/2012 16:43

tgat - that

EmptyCrispPackets · 09/09/2012 20:41

The unit I work in gives out a leaflet on birth debriefing at discharge.

poopadoop · 09/09/2012 22:13

Agreed a debrief would be helpful, but also that there are clearly such huge pressure on maternity services as it is.

I think for a lot of people labour is confusing and sometimes traumatic, and if a midwife could sit down and go through your notes with you when you are being discharged after the birth that would be great.

Everyone should be able to get a copy of their medical records, incl. the full set of notes from your labour by applying to the hospital through what is often called the patient advice and liaison department (PALS) and if you want a better understanding of your labour, then that is the best thing to do. Every NHS trust has a similar service.

If you feel the labour and your memory of it are affecting you adversely you should then be able to go through the notes with your health visitor or GP if not a midwife.

I do see where the OP is coming from in terms of it not being explained why things went a particular way - eg the back to back issue - and as most people are sent home the next day after giving birth it can all feel very rushed.

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