To think that private property is just that :-/

[WithoutCaution]

We have a drive, at the top of the drive there is a gate onto our yard. Through the yard there is another gate which goes to the fields and at the end of that track there is a gate onto a nice quite road - leads to some nice hacking areas.

The entire of our property is private so no public access/right of way...

Recently I've noticed (since I'm at home a lot more) that several cyclists and walkers are using our drive/track as a cut through to avoid a busy junction and cycling/walking on a busy road (the same reason that we put the gate at the end of the track). I've tried putting up 'Private, No access' signs and locking the gates but I'm finding that the ones who feel it is their right to trespass are climbing the gates

I've also been told to go fuck my self when I've pointed out that they aren't meant to be on our property. My main problem at the moment is that we will be dog sitting my Uncles 2 outdoor GSD mixes for a month starting next week. These dogs will be living on the yard (they live on my uncles yard normally but the lady who's looking after his horses is scared of the dogs - They are big, very vocal if they spot someone who isn't meant to be there and have no problem launching themselves at the gates my ideal yard dog - If they know you they're fine). These entitled cyclists/walkers who use our yard/track as a cut through are going to be met with three locked gates/signs saying 'private property' and two big powerful dogs. I also have CCTV.

I think I've done everything I can to prevent them entering but I'm concerned that since they are entitled nob-heads they will continue to use our track and then claim some sort of injury as a result of the dogs. Is there anything else I should be doing? - Refuse to use beware of the dog signs as that is admitting some form of liability.

... It's more of an essay than I thought

OP can you rebuild the fence and gate - it might be easier in the only run. I was thinking a high brick wall and gate. Think gated community type. Not pretty to look at but would solve the problem once and for all.

I doubt OP has 2+ m high fences & gates, though.

Anti climb pant washes off easily, I don't understand the need for warning signs at all on private property. I know because I had to paint loads on roof of a (community) preschool building & couldn't help getting some on me & my clothes, too. It's a lot like soap mixed with vegetable dye into globby stuff, rather than proper paint. Only the most tempermental fabrics won't easily wash it out.

I'm amazed that you get people climbing over fences & then lifting their bikes over them, too. Most bikes are too heavy to make that worth the effort.

The property is private and has private property signs up. I believe that is enough to stop it being claimed as a right of way regardless of how many people use it. I'm a walker. I often use paths that have a sign up saying something like "This is not a right of way, but you are welcome to use this path".

If anybody climbs into you property and gets bitten, then sues you for £1000, why not sue them for £1000 for entering your private property and doing something which caused you to be £1000 out of pocket?

Tiggy, that may be what you believe but that isn't the law!

The public rights of way act enshrined RoW in perpetuity in many cases, unless a legal order has been put in place to change/divert it: see here

If an landowner has inadvertently blocked a RoW, whether or not they believe it to exist or not, whether or not they own the land, whether or not their solicitor checked for it, then they are breaking the law, however unreasonable it seems. It sounds like the OP is not, because she created the access, track, gates etc, so it sounds like there wasn't an original pathway, and it also sounds like opportunist walkers/cyclists think it would be a convenient cut-through which they are abusing. But the point is you don't have to see a pathway/road/bridlepath for it to exist - if there is a chance that one has a historic existence, it is better to check.

The point I was making was about signs that stop a new footpath being created rather than using an old path.
"A PRoW can be established in one of three ways:"...
..."deemed dedication - where a right of way has been in use for 20 years or more." The signs stop that.

I have been down a few hard footpaths. I never wear shorts when I'm walking because of nettles and brambles. I climb over fallen tree and locked gates and I do go around blocked footpaths on private property when have to. I believe it's the landowner's duty to keep footpaths in good repair and sign posted, and the walker's duty to stay on the path. If I stray off the path it's the landowners fault for not doing their bit properly.

Well i'm afraid i think you're being really mean not letting walkers and cyclists cut through to avoid the busy road junction - they're not doing any harm.

When the dogs come to stay put up a sign on the gates saying 'dogs loose in yard, DO NOT ENTER'. If people ignore the signs it will be their problem.

Really mean? I had to plant bramble bushes at the bottom of my garden to stop the little neds from the other side using my garden as a short cut. BTW, they have variously ripped the roof off my shed, abused my DD, stolen my solar lights, scattered toys across the garden, etc.

Am I being really mean, but not letting them come in? I mean it is a shortcut and does let them avoid a major through road.

FFS

It's the OP's garden (RoW issue apart), not a public park. How the fuck can you say she is "really mean"

I live in town and have a big drive. I am probably really mean not letting people park. But its my fucking home! so I don't care so much.

there is no law of trespass in scotland as such, right to roam is ancient and implies on foot or horseback not a cycle it is a right to walk not camp/picnic/ pick blackberries.

it does not include what would be house and its direct garden, hence you have right to walk moors around balmoral but not in private garden. it has stopped some celebs buying property in scotland, as legal view of garden means immediate formal gardens maybe 1-3 acres max, any woodland farmland rough ground etc is RTR

you should not use barbed wire on fences walls can use around fields as top wire but not hidden. just like building sites have to be reasonably safe even though no-one should be there and roofs have signs saying do not walk on etc

I sympathise but its a civil matter and police are not going to be terribly interested

It seems strange that so many walkers and cyclists are cutting through.I could imagine a max of maybe 1 or 2 every year.I wonder if it is marked on a map or guide somewhere as a footpath?
Did the previous owner allow access.I think there is a law that if it has been used as a cut through for 20 years then a right of way is created.also the previous owner may have allowed it's use as a permissive footpath ie not one creating a legal right of way, and this might be marked on maps.
Instead of going in guns blazing , how about asking them (politely) why they thought it was public access.Then you could get in touch with the publishers of these maps/guides.Lots of landowners put up signs saying 'private road' 'no access' etc to deter walkers from using routes where they no full well there is a ROW, so that is maybe why they are ignoring your signs.
On the other matter you would undoubtedly be liable for the dogs attacking any 'trespassers'. Keep them tied up

Behaving like a lunatic/nutter/hysteric in these sort of situations can work. eg next time you see a trespasser, start screaming piercingly for someone to help you, a strange man/woman/cyclist is creeping around outside your house, you think you've seen them before and they are stalking you and you in fear of attack.

No-one is to know you're not neurotic.

OP, put up a sign 'Flesh eating Ants'.

That'll keep them off

Do you think a note in the village magazine reminding the new people that our track is not for public use may solve the problem. Obviously if they don't read the mag they'll still do it.

catwoo it is highly unlikely that the previous owner let people us it as a cut through since the cut through private track was made by us a few years ago

Seriously.........I would just let them take their chances with the dogs. It's your home, why should you go out of your way to tell people not to come onto your property.

I think the law needs changing if only to protect dumbass trespassers.

When I was growing up the worst case was my dad telling a couple to get their daughter out of our field. They got really arsey until he pointed out that highland cattle were very protective of their calves. They were at a wedding in a neighbours garden and let their 9 year old go for a walk. I still feel a bit sick thinking about it.

Then there was the bloke we yelled at to get out of another neighbours wood. He was angry at us yelling at him. We pointed out that the gunshot was because people were hunting pheasants in that wood and while they generally shot at flying birds, we felt it was a bad time to be trespassing.

We tried to be polite but it was like being on suicide watch for day trippers!

Slightly off the OP but I also happened to read yesterday, that many farms when owned by farmers were taken care of and made easier to walk through.

Now, many of these farms are private properties and the owners can't be bothered to keep the hedges trimmed and pathways clear.

I live in a very rural spot, I should be able to cross villages on foot. Its impossible now. I only need to get my kids to school, but am forced to buy a second car to ferry them there.

I do feel sorry for you though op it must be a worry.

Feminine I think farmers were given an incentive to do that though? Or they stopped when people started taking the mick (not picking up dog shit/letting their dogs run out of control/ not shutting gates etc). Public rights of way are also not maintained very well unless they are used regularly.

But I think the dog problem is potentially solved since my Uncle brought a fairly large kennel for then this morning. Apparently they can spend the day in it if having them and DS in the same area becomes difficult (I'd have stabled them when we were on the yard)..... Would have been nice to know I had that option before I started to panic. So they will be loose at night and kenneled in the day but still able to bark and launch themselves at the bars - Will hopefully deter uninvited people.

The dogs should be arriving on Tuesday but I think I'll add some dogs live here signs just in case :)

Will most likely still have trespassers - Should probably start charging them and put the money towards maintaining the drive, track and gates

Razor wire the bastards :o

OP, in fairness to your uncle, you need to discuss the situation that his dogs will be in,

If the dogs do come into contact with someone(regardless of if they should be there or not) and do bite a person, they could become subject to a control order, which would mean that they will have to muzzled in public,

that is quite a difficult situation to put your uncle in, I would have a chat with him before any situation develops,

you might also want to think about the dogs getting injured, a walker defending themselves might do real damage with a stick,

talk to your parish council, if it is a reoccurring problem, then there obviously a need for improvements, the PC can put pressure on highways to come up with a solution,

Have any accidents occurred at the junction?

and have you looked on all the old OS maps?

Well caution I hope things go well for you, must be a worry :)

Uncle knows about the trespassers but is confident that the dogs wouldn't bite - Just very vocal/will jump up - but as they will now be behind kennel bars the risks to the trespassers is about zero (as long as they don't suddenly decide to do it at night)

They are muzzled in public anyway as they only really leave his yard to go to the vets and since they are big dogs the vet requires them to wear one.

In the grand scheme of things it's only 3-4 people going into the town but it's twice a day most days. Not overly sure what the PC and highways could do apart from putting traffic lights in to make it easier to pull out but that won't make cycling on that road any nicer...There have been no major accidents that I'm aware of at that junction it's just very busy with a 60mph limit and a bugger to pull out from.

Thought I'd do a little update:

The dogs have settled in fine and only one of the uninvited people still insists on using our track. I have now had it confirmed that there is absolutely no right of way, historic or otherwise on our property. So he has no excuse

Think I might put up a map showing the existing rights of way in our area...

DH has decided that although the dogs are no harder to look after than our own he now no longer thinks we should have an outdoor yard dog. Which is fine since we are now TTC DC2 and are planning on getting another family dog. Currently arguing about discussing the breed we'd like (I would like a Dalmatian or a Doberman he would like an English bull dog)

Yes, do put up a laminated map showing right of way. What are you going to do about the remaining tresspasser?

Well I had hoped that the dogs would scare him off but he banged on the door and went off on one about dangerous dogs on public rights of way - Threatened to report me to the RSPCA and the police, I told him he was welcome to do so - Have yet to hear anything from them so guessing he hasn't. Then when that didn't work I showed him that there was no right of way which also didn't work.

Open to ideas

Report him for harrassment and tresspassing to the police, he sounds like an arrogant pig.