To think that private property is just that :-/

[WithoutCaution]

We have a drive, at the top of the drive there is a gate onto our yard. Through the yard there is another gate which goes to the fields and at the end of that track there is a gate onto a nice quite road - leads to some nice hacking areas.

The entire of our property is private so no public access/right of way...

Recently I've noticed (since I'm at home a lot more) that several cyclists and walkers are using our drive/track as a cut through to avoid a busy junction and cycling/walking on a busy road (the same reason that we put the gate at the end of the track). I've tried putting up 'Private, No access' signs and locking the gates but I'm finding that the ones who feel it is their right to trespass are climbing the gates

I've also been told to go fuck my self when I've pointed out that they aren't meant to be on our property. My main problem at the moment is that we will be dog sitting my Uncles 2 outdoor GSD mixes for a month starting next week. These dogs will be living on the yard (they live on my uncles yard normally but the lady who's looking after his horses is scared of the dogs - They are big, very vocal if they spot someone who isn't meant to be there and have no problem launching themselves at the gates my ideal yard dog - If they know you they're fine). These entitled cyclists/walkers who use our yard/track as a cut through are going to be met with three locked gates/signs saying 'private property' and two big powerful dogs. I also have CCTV.

I think I've done everything I can to prevent them entering but I'm concerned that since they are entitled nob-heads they will continue to use our track and then claim some sort of injury as a result of the dogs. Is there anything else I should be doing? - Refuse to use beware of the dog signs as that is admitting some form of liability.

... It's more of an essay than I thought

We used to have a house where the back garden ran down to a small river with farmland on the other side. People would occasioanlly canoe along the river in the summer and, one day, I went to the bottom of the garden where we had a patio only to find people sitting there having a rest from their row and sitting in our chairs! I asked them firmly nicely if they would move because it was our garden. We had a three-bedroomed semi - hardly a mansion with lots of land!

So I should either keep both dogs locked in a stable 24/7 (only way to avoid the dogs coming into contact with the knob heads), tell my Uncle that we can't have the dogs and leave him in a difficult position or muzzle the dogs for the majority of the day?

We've lived here about 5 years and put the yard, track and gates in a few years ago

Fizzy - I can't comment about Scotland as I've never lived there but if you come to my part of England I wouldn't advise wandering willy nilly across farm land. IME land owners and the people who work for them are not happy for all and sundry to traipse across their land. And why would they be, in most cases the land is part of a business and they have every right to object to trespassers.

paint the fences and gate with anti climb paint here or the top with copper grease

See recent news story on young girl being bitten by a dog on her grandmother's property - no action could be taken as it all occurred on private property.

"Dogs running loose" accompanied by a picture of a German Shepherd rather than beware of the dog, I think, because this admits no liability.

FWIW I am a born and bred country bumpkin and I go apeshit over trespassers. I care because trespassers have, in the past, entered the yard (climbing over a locked gate with a private property sign) to feed my horse. This sounds a bit daft until you realise that said horse is on an extremely strict diet due to laminitis and as a consequence became very ill and in a great deal of pain, directly resulting in a vet bill of some £200. Despite me being the only person who should be there I am paranoid enough that there were two very clear signs stating not to feed the horse due to a medical condition.

Had they left the gate open and my dogs or horse got loose I would be responsible for all damages they caused (and in sheep country this would be considerable, were the dogs to get out). Theft in rural areas is rife and on the increase. Our immediate neighbours have been broken into, sheds and stores emptied, valuable trailers and tack stolen. Theft of horses and pedigree or working dogs is not uncommon. My car was stolen about six weeks ago. For these reasons I want to know exactly who is trespassing on my property, why that van is parked in the layby, whose dog is getting into my yard and leaving piles of shit...

I used to live on a smallholding and had no end of problems with people climbing the gate into my field, despite it not being an access route to anywhere. I had horses in there, and it was a freaking nightmare because one was a bit of a lunatic and liable to kick people in the head. I spent half my life hanging over the fence yelli g at people to get the fuck out before they got themselves a brain injury for their troubles.

They were invariably there to pick blackberries from our hedges (piss off and pick them somewhere else!) or to try to pet the horses. One woman brought her toddler in to 'pat the ponies' and was mist perturbed when I told her to go away. I also had someone trying to feed a pregnant mare a ham sandwich 'because she could use the protein, isn't it?'.

People are fuckers. Let the dogs eat them, serves them right. #unhelpfulbutrighteous

"FWIW, I think you are unreasonable. I live in Scotland (right to roam), grew up a farm where people regularly walked right past our house on our land, sometimes having a wee look in to see us sat having lunch etc, with their dogs etc and we didn't give a stuff. Why do you care apart from keeping the dogs in and preventing injury? You are obviously bothered about it when the dogs aren't there too. It is very strange and I am guessing you have moved to the country from somewhere urban. Only townies and celebs get all hot and bothered about such things IME. "

Always lived in rural villages so no we aren't townies and last time I checked we weren't celebs

I think it's the fact that since we put the yard and track in we've had people coming up the drive and through the yard that's annoying me. Of course I'm bothered by people who think they are entitled to use our property as a cut through and then become aggressive when the fact that they are not welcome is pointed out. Have never had people assume that they can do that before...

Well, where I grew up must have been different or we were unusually accepting and we also knew all the people who would have been walking through so perhaps different scenario (close knit village where everyone knows everyone. Seriously, my folks still live there and 'all and sundry', as you put it, still walk through regularly (farm no longer operational).

You will be okay if the dogs are behind three sets of locked gates (and can't get over them!). If so though, why did you post saying you were worried someone might get injured by the dogs and hold you liable?

Incidentally, why do you refer to walkers as "entitled knobheads"? Are they all, or are some of them just people trying to find a footpath and enjoy some time in the countryside whilst harming nobody? Have you ever been walking and inadvertantly strayed from the (badly marked) footpath? Does that make YOU an entitled knobhead? I would never trespass intentionally, and don't even go walking very often, but I have certainly found myself on private land on occasion when doing my best to follow a pubic right of way. I don't imagine I am unusual. I agree with an earlier poster about putting up a sign showing the way back to the footpath as a possible solution.

WithoutCaution

Another thing to remember is that it enough people do it regulaly enough then they can apply for a "right of way" through your yard.

See it isn't the people who have lived in the village longer than us who are trespassing, it's the people who move here since we added the yard (could well be townies). Would still be a bit miffed if the whole village started taking advantage. Thankfully we're the other end of the village from the school so won't have to worry about lots of children climbing the gates.

I don't mind people coming round at lambing to have a look or asking if their children can help to bottle feed (only have a few sheep) or even to watch the foal we had a few years ago.

All and sundry in touristy rural areas means thieving scum, people who are so arrogant or so stupid as to ignore signs and thus nearly kill your beloved animals, people dropping litter and fag ends, untrained loose dogs mauling the livestock and leaving piles of shit all over private property you have worked hard all your life to have precisely so you don't have to encounter bloody all and sundry.

GIT ORF MY RENTED LAAAAAND.

housespouse, I don't think anyone could blame a walker who strayed from the path accidentally. one who climbs a locked gate marked 'private property' and swears at the landowner when asked not to, OTOH, is most certainly an entitled knobhead. Or just a cunt.

Housespouse - No all walkers are not knobheads just the ones who mouth off when told that there is no right of way through our property or who climb the locked gates which clearly state private property on them.

If they were lost then fine but I highly doubt that they were since they are often told to get out of the yard

It is definitely worth checking, even if you think you are sure. I know this because I had a mortgage refused on our house which had an outstanding RoW application on it. The Ramblers Association, and one nutter in particular, had filed thousands and thousands of these, which had a counter effect since the volume slowed up local councils being unable to deal with them and then the law changed, I think to bin any outstanding ones after a particular date.

I have a fair bit of sympathy with the right to roam movement but some of their campaign was just nuts. In our case I managed to find some archive evidence that proved the footpath did not, in fact, run through our garden! Which meant we got a mortgage in the end. But if it had been upheld there would have been naff all we could have done about it.

This should turn up in searches but not all solicitors are so thorough... you should check as a RoW can be very ancient, not visible on the land and across many privately owned spaces. What was there before you put in your drive etc?

Ok, interesting isn't it? I posted a while back about wanting to walk my children to school through very rural footpaths. Its now turned out I can't, well unless I force my way through farm land that should be available to walk on but has been made impossible by landowners/farmers.

I do have sympathy op though, but I wish there could be a nicer feeling between us walkers and households/landowners :)

I really wish I didn't have to buy second car...sorry I've hijacked a bit

There was an item on Farming Today on Radio 4 this morning when people described how dog muck (that's how it was described) could get into silage or hay when it was harvested. Dog muck can cause trouble for pregnant cows and the calves can be born dead or too ill to survive. That could cost the farmer around £60,000 per year.

If only people [including dog walkers - are you reading this?] would recognise that private land is not for the world and its children to gain access!

Whoever said there is no law of tresspass in E&W was wrong, there is, but it is a civil matter, so the police are unlikely to be interested.

They had their dog off the lead near livestock???

i dont know if this is any help or not but i have issues with a few kids who live in the same village as me climbing my walls to basicly piss arse about in my sheds and use my equpiment. the village policeman came round and told me that if i use anything like barbwire/broken glass and even anticlimb paint i am breaking the law. because my property boundry runs alongside the public highway and it could create a hazzard for ussers of that and if the little shits hurt themselves or damage clotheing whilst climbing he will come and handcuff me and not in a good way

Anti-climb paint, anti-climb paint, anti-climb paint!

(With a warning sign so they can't deny knowledge)

Oh sock, you've pissed on my parade!

Answer
Yes, it is perfectly legal to use anti-climbing paint although there are a couple of factors which
should be considered when applying the paint -

? You should make sure the anti-climbing paint starts at a reasonably high level so passers
by do not damage their clothing inadvertently.

? 'Warning anti climb paint' types of signs should be clearly posted wherever the paint is
in use. These should be posted to protect the company or householder from being sued
in a civil court, e.g. to protect from civil action for damage to clothing.

? The notices should be simple enough for a reasonably young person to understand as,
apart from intruders, they are the ones likely to be trying to climb up.?
© Thames Valley Police. All rights reserved.

Thames Valley Police also provide the following advice on the prevention of metal theft:

?Apply anti-climb paint to drain pipes and roof guttering. This restricts access to roofing. Do
not apply the paint below a height of two metres. Display warning notices which warn people
that anti-climb paint is being used.?
© Thames Valley Police. All rights reserved.

Arf at 'pubic right of way' .

Feminine, that is the source of the RA campaign, because many RoWs pre-date 'private ownership', and so they have a special historic status and the law protects that to some extent. So actually, many landowners and farmers are breaking the law preventing people using them (eg putting barbed wire over stiles, bulls in fields, blocking access with equipment etc). There has to be a reasonable compromise for most situations though - I don't think wilfull trespass is the right answer as we do have private property now! But equally landowners ought to respect the public's desire to enjoy the countryside by enabling paths through/past their land, perhaps in less sensitive areas.