To think that private property is just that :-/

[WithoutCaution]

We have a drive, at the top of the drive there is a gate onto our yard. Through the yard there is another gate which goes to the fields and at the end of that track there is a gate onto a nice quite road - leads to some nice hacking areas.

The entire of our property is private so no public access/right of way...

Recently I've noticed (since I'm at home a lot more) that several cyclists and walkers are using our drive/track as a cut through to avoid a busy junction and cycling/walking on a busy road (the same reason that we put the gate at the end of the track). I've tried putting up 'Private, No access' signs and locking the gates but I'm finding that the ones who feel it is their right to trespass are climbing the gates

I've also been told to go fuck my self when I've pointed out that they aren't meant to be on our property. My main problem at the moment is that we will be dog sitting my Uncles 2 outdoor GSD mixes for a month starting next week. These dogs will be living on the yard (they live on my uncles yard normally but the lady who's looking after his horses is scared of the dogs - They are big, very vocal if they spot someone who isn't meant to be there and have no problem launching themselves at the gates my ideal yard dog - If they know you they're fine). These entitled cyclists/walkers who use our yard/track as a cut through are going to be met with three locked gates/signs saying 'private property' and two big powerful dogs. I also have CCTV.

I think I've done everything I can to prevent them entering but I'm concerned that since they are entitled nob-heads they will continue to use our track and then claim some sort of injury as a result of the dogs. Is there anything else I should be doing? - Refuse to use beware of the dog signs as that is admitting some form of liability.

... It's more of an essay than I thought

Withoutcaution

Sinister was just being unpleasant. She tried to make it sarcastic in a grimly amusing wy but missed and just sounded chippy and gratuitously nasty.

Hths

Wilfself - what if you were the ones to put the gates in/ remove some hedge/ move your fences to create the track? Is there still a chance of a historic right of way?

Can I suggest this: dog

@hazel

When we moved into this house many years ago (it had been empty for several months) we discovered someone from down the street was letting their dog go to the toilet on the front lawn. The only access was down the front path which did not have a gate, but there is a hedge round the rest of it. Some people are just anti-social. I hope one of your visiting dogs chases off your unwelcome visitors.

Love that HazleNutt :)

Is there definitely no right of access. I'm in Scotland so it's a lot different here, but I don't know if the CROW act may have changed something in your case?

Sinister I used to have a very small garden and had exactly the same sort of worry.

Was I liable if the stupid estate DCs fell through my garage roof. The tree they used to get up was on the councils side of a six foot fence, it wasn't mine to chop down.

I don't think the police can do anything about the trespassing but you have been verbally abused by trespassers which is something you can report.

Once you've checked that you definitely aren't access land (check you aren't on yellow land on get a map, have you considered "footpath this way" signs? As a walker I desperately try to avoid trespassing, but have done so inadvertently due to confusion. A positive sign might help you (maybe).

I don't know this area of law at all, but keeping the gates l;ocked and reporting the abuse at least shows that you're not allowing a right of way to develop - if that can happen

for anyone with a smaller property than sinister she is more than happy for you to meander through at your leisure

Buy a sign that has "German Shepherds live here" and a photo - there's plenty of them about. Display it outside the house, on your gate or somewhere.

That way, they are adequately warned, but you admit no liability. We do this with violent/aggressive dogs who are admitted to the centre, after taking legal advice.

You'll probably find the dog's put people off anyway, and they'd have no recourse to blame you if they are on private land.

How about that anti-burglar paint for the top of your gates. We had some on a wall at my last work place (as drug users kept using the outside space and were leaving needles etc lying around). I think if you touch it it gets all over you and makes a right mess of you rather than ripping your skin to shreds like barb wire would.

Unfortunately (and unfairly imho) if any of the trespassers are injured on your land (due to dogs or otherwise) you can be held liable for their injuries.

The problem is of 'reasonable forseeability'. As you know that people trespass on your land (or easily could) you are responsible for any injury they sustain.

No it's not fair but it does happen. I work in commercial insurance and people do have to make sure their land/property is safe.

Quiet I was joking about the dogs removing someones leg.

My cousins run the family farm in Ireland and the farm dogs are just that. They are not like pet dogs, they are working dogs, absolutely fine if they know you but protective of the farm and the cattle if they don't.

I have no sympathy for people who ignore signs and no respect for people who let their dogs worry animals.

Caja Sorry but putting up a sign to warn of a danger does not mean you won't be liable. All it means is you have recognised a danger but not necessarily done all you can to remove/minimise it (which you should do).

By the way i don't think the OP is being U at all...am just explaining how liability would work in this situation.

Dawn
Why do you have to minimise the danger to a trespasser who has no right to be on your land anyway?

The trespass law is an ass. It's civil if they're just on your land but the moment they damage something it's criminal. As you have CCTV can you set something up so that unauthorised trespassers have to break something to get onto your land? Or alternatively, someones barbed wire suggestion is also good. And of course the talking to police and dog signs advice!

Can you put some electric fence over/around the gate, not too dangerous, but certainly uncomfortable if you straddle it!

Because you know the danger is there, in essence.

There is much case law to back this up. People have been held liable for injuries to burglars, trespassers and children wandering where they shouldn't when a reasonably forseeable danger has caused the injury.

Yes, they shouldn't be there in the first place but you know there is a danger on your land/property and a reasonable person is held to remove/minimise the danger as far as is reasonably practicable.

I'm not saying i agree with this i really don't but it's the way things work in this country.

A better way to think of it is this - yes, a person with no right to be there might go on your land and get injured...in which case you think 'serves them right'

but

a person with a right to be there is also just as susceptible to any dangers on your land so it is reasonable that you remove them for everyone's sake.

Chazs - I know you were. :)

Our cattle dog is a witch. She doesn't like anyone strange, she hates "ramblers", (which are different to "walkers" - ramblers have all the gear, no idea and think they own the countryside, "walkers" are respectful to the countryside and the protocols of footpaths and livestock) and she's been known to bite strangers, so we have to really watch her.

Sadly, DawnOftheDee is correct. Despite the people trespassing and it being their fault, they still tried to take us to court for a "vicious dog attack". Thanks to CCTV (which they didn't realise we had), we won, but we still could have been liable, despite the signs everywhere.