To think we are ALL assisted by the tax payer in some way

[CordeliaStarling]

Im fed up of hearing people moaning about families who they perceive to get too much aid from 'the taxpayer'

I can't believe there is a single person in the UK who doesn't receive any kind of help or use a service that is funded by the tax payer.

DD has been assisted by the tax payer a lot.
she's 8 months old, gets CB, CTC, (well, i get them on her behalf), had a free-at-point-of-service birth, after care, doctor's, prescriptions, innoculations.

i've had: free birth, MWs, HVs, prescriptions so far, etc.

no, i can't imagine many people have had nothing from the taxpayer.

even a trip to the GP costs the taxpayer.

schools

in fact, i bet most people in the country get more than they'll pay in to the pot before they even leave school.

No time to read through posts, sorry, but Yes, everyone benefits in some way. Education is free, medical care is free. Even if a person has no children and never claims anything in terms of benefits, I would be willing to bet that each person in the UK will see a Dr at least once in their lifetime. That's paid for out of taxes.

We are most definitely a tax contributing household, rather than a benefiting one.

For the most part we see it as a necessity for a civilised society in which the vulnerable and those less fortuntae than us are taken care of.

However, it completely fucks me off that some people insist that we should be prepared to give more and more and more and if we don't want to then we are greedy evil bastards.

I agree!

But it didn't half piss me off yesterday. I was in the post office queue at ASDA, 3 men were in front of me going on about stereotypical chav shite along with complaining about the queue. They soon got their turn, each were given a handful of cash and went STAIGHT over the the beer aisle and filled their arms with black cans.

Pisses me off knowing they were spending the day getting pissed on money that could do so much good elsewhere.

I always tell this story on society/tax/contribution threads but here we go again. One of my DH's cousins got cancer in the US. He had good insurance and was very rich. After a long-running cancer battle he died broke. His DB had to go into the hospital and drop a cheque for $10,000 on his bed so that he could pay for his medications.

I don't want that to happen to me.

yes, MrsT - i am so grateful for the NHS and the fact that it cares for you first without asking questions.
and that everyone gets the same standard of healthcare.

I'm fortunate, I earn a very good income and that means I pay a lot of tax.

I have no problem with that. The tax I pay helps to make sure that people in need have a roof over their heads and don't go hungry or cold. That's how it should be.

What makes me angry is:

1. People of any income who avoid paying their fair share of tax.
2. Large families, living in free houses, who have no intention of ever looking for work because they can live well enough without it.
3. Men who move around the country leaving a trail of children behind them who they have no intention of providing for.

I'm so so so happy that we have the NHS! Don't get me wrong ill have a whinge about some people abusing the benefits system, but we have got a lot to be thankful for!

Tis a shame though that so many things seem to be getting scrapped. I have a horrible feeling that the NHS burserys for uni students will stop soon :(

MrsT i am glad to pay a fair contribution towards the NHS etc and as you say, perhaps one day I'll need it.

But the question is what is fair...

All of us.

We were driven into the other day. It was fine- ambulance and police there in minutes, other driver in an articulated lorry compliant and not scared he was going to lose his job, and even if he had he wouldn't starve.

Every time we walk down a swept street, with adequate lighting and pass a stranger who isn't passing on TB because she can't afford the meds.

I remember reading that you have to have a personal income over £100,000 to have any chance of being a net contributor. That's something like 3% of the country or less. And doesn't include me...

And even those who are net contributors by some margin still benefit financially from their contributions - maybe their cleaner qualifies for tax credits, or the school dinner lady. Indirect but still real.

Hurrah for living in a community. I'm quite glad that my neighbour can't just decide to break my door down and take my tv/children/virtue (ahem) without repercussions, for example.

I don't think there is any fair in this. If you get long-running cancer, you will get all your money back in spades. I'm not wishing for that, though. If it helps, I used minimal services in the UK and worked and paid taxes for decades. I have moved to Canada now and almost immediately had a very expensive birth (of DD) and went on paid mat leave for a year. Canada has definitely funded me. You can use my tax contribution now I have left. You're welcome light-hearted BTW.

My view has always been that 45% is fair (particularly if you take into account loss of personal allowance and NI etc).

Asking me to pay 50% or more of any pound I've earned feels like daylight robbery.

wordfactory
Agreed, what is fair?

On one level I am paying more than my fair share. I pay more in income and council tax than we as a family receive in services. So I am paying tax to provide a benefit to society as a whole. I may be glad that others are prepared to do the same for me at some point in my life. But like others I do get hacked off with suggestions that it is my responsibility to pay even more and more and more for the good of society and if I don't I am selfish or uncaring.

I remember reading that you have to have a personal income over £100,000 to have any chance of being a net contributor. That's something like 3% of the country or less.

So 3% are paying in, and 97% are taking out. How does that work exactly?

Sallying
Income tax is only a part of the tax take, corporation tax, vat, fuel duty, SDLT, inheritance tax etc all go into the pot as well.

I remember reading that you have to have a personal income over £100,000 to have any chance of being a net contributor. That's something like 3% of the country or less.

So 3% are paying in, and 97% are taking out. How does that work exactly?

Because although they try to minimise it of companies tax.

Although it hurts to pay 50% income tax, if you worked out how much you get back via the NHS, free education etc. it would reduce it dramatically. That's without having the 'unseen benefits' of living in a literate society, where your protected from your landlord gassing or overcrowding you, your Dr isn't taking backhanders to survive, the meter reader rarely cases your joint because he can't afford meds for his children, etc.

The 3% pay fucking shitloads of tax (not always proportionally, but as a GBP figure) which by the way is why governments care what they think.

Also, they use less - pay five times as much council tax, say, for the same bin collection; less schooling; less NHS attention; not using subsidised transport; not using council facilities such as pools, in favour of nicer private ones; etc.

Income tax from an average salary is peanuts. It's a government department's stationery budget. VAT and other spending-related taxes are far more interesting. If you buy a £1m house the stamp duty is £50k. Those transactions happen every day in London.

help to be honest most of us on the 50% rate have private healthcare and use private schools.

And I simply don't believe that having the tax rate at 45% would lead to the social depravity you desribe. It certainly didn't before Brown decided to put it up to 50% did it?

For me, no amount of indirect benefits validate paying more than a half of a pound I've earned through my labour. It feels like the tipping point to me.

I'm not a Tory. I'm not right wing. I don't think tax should be a flat rate of anyhting daft like that...but 50%...no.

Had this discussion with a friend whose child had been in SCBU. The cost of his stay had been in six or seven figures. She would have to work for years to pay off that alone, before considering a dentist appointment, school place, or hey driving along the road, calling 999 or having her bin emptied.

wordfactory the top rate used to be 90%.

Whenever this topic comes up (and it does with depressing regularity), people always talk about how much tax they think they should pay and moan about paying too much. Compare our rates to other countries in Europe.

Personally, I'd rather pay more and do something about the appalling chasm between rich and poor that we currently have in this country. Our tax systems supports the rich and inherited wealth - it has been designed to prop up the class system

I'm no expert but didn't tax take reach an all time low when the tax rates were at daft levels?

I can see why. You'd feel so fucked off you'd either move, not bother making it, or try some dodgy tax sceme.

Thus far, I've never felt moved to do any of those things, but if it went to say 55% I think I'd have to.