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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this person has an absolute cheek and not to pay up?

135 replies

Otheregos · 29/08/2012 13:58

Good afternoon everyone,
I am a long term lurker, but this has really bugged me so just thought I'd see what others opinions/views are

Here goes... We rent out a house,have Very nice tenants. Received a call yesterday from our tenant to say they have got an invoice for us from next door ( adjoining semi ) for the fence? Wtf? We spoke for a while and it appears our neighbours have gone ahead and ripped down our boundary fence( and the rest of theirs) and replaced it, he is now expecting £400 for this fence...way over priced, it's only about 20feet. This neighbour has had no communication with us or the tenants, the first we knew about it was from the phone call yesterday.

Been to pick up said invoice...which is actually just a typed letter no proof of purchase for the fencing..and if you've not fallen asleep yet reading this post,this is what they have written

Sir/ma'am, due to the recent bad weather and poor maintenance of the fence panels at said property, I have found it necessary to have these replaced prior to contacting you. As you are probably aware the weather has been quite bad of late. This has resulted in said fence panels for the said property which as landlord you are responsible for becoming severely damaged and a health risk due to them being at a state where they could fall down at any moment. as a father of 2 young children I felt that these needed replacing as a matter of urgency, along with my fence panels which I also replace at the same time. The total costs of replacing your fence panels are split into £250 for parts and transportation and £150 labour. The total sum that I request from you is £400 to recompensate me for the costs of having your fence panels replaced at such short notice. I would appreciate payment by cheque of bacs transfer to blah blah account. If you can settle this sooner rather than later that would be very much appreciated as this has left my finances considerably short for this month.

I'm picking now but he spelt panels pannels!

So my problems are,
A) our tenant said the fence was actually ok, we had previously about 4 months ago replaced the other side as our tenant had contacted us about it and like normal people we spoke with the neighbours ( other side) and an agreement was made to go halves and get 3 quotes...so this is what I would have expected from these people.

B) you cannot go asking for money with no proof of costs etc.its a rented house and we have to keep records like any other business

C) even if we are responsible for that boundary( not sure yet as I need to check the deeds) people can't just rip down your fence...surely this is classed as criminal damage ?

I realise I am completely rambling now, but any comments or what you think we should do most appreciated...

Thanks for reading if you've made it to the end! Smile

OP posts:
mummmsy · 29/08/2012 21:02

WhereYouLeftIt that is exactly what I thought too!

Mintyy · 29/08/2012 21:03

I am afraid I would be very tempted to reply with "Oh don't be so silly".

MrsRhettButler · 29/08/2012 21:06

Marking place, I need to know what happens Grin

MrsRhettButler · 29/08/2012 21:07

And what mintyy said too.

Original poster
Otheregos · 29/08/2012 21:12

Hi all, just been in the loft and found the title deeds, yeah SmileSmileSmile can you tell I'm pleased. According to the drawn plan we only own the end boundary fence which runs parallel with the right of way path, (marked with a T, thanks for that tip)the fence the nobjockey has erected is a joint boundary so its a most big and loud tough titties!!! I am going to a write him a 'said' letter pointing out 'said' facts and tell him to foooook right off. In the politest way possible of course

OP posts:
DontmindifIdo · 29/08/2012 21:14

Yay!

clam · 29/08/2012 21:19

Hang on, a joint boundary means he had at least a bit of right to deal with it. So you couldn't get him on trespass/damaging your property etc.. (if you were even going to).

However, all the other stuff stands - he can't expect you to cough up for something when you weren't consulted as to its necessity or how much it was going to cost.

clam · 29/08/2012 21:30

Tell him you do not accept that his assertion that replacing the fence "prior to consulting you" was necessary. As far as you were aware, the fence was sound and fit for purpose and there has been no recent bad weather that would warrant him demolishing it. It would have been easy to contact you to discuss the matter as, indeed, he did in order to ask you for a contribution. As you are letting the property under a formal arrangement, you are bound to account for all maintenance work undertaken and therefore you will need an invoice from a registered builder/whatever before you could even consider coming to any sort of arrangement about a contribution. You would also like to see the other quotes obtained prior to commencement of the work. (of course we know there aren't any, but you need to make him squirm).

Original poster
Otheregos · 29/08/2012 21:44

Good plan clam, mean ,I know but I want to make him squirm . I agree he does have aright to deal with it and that's fine I'm not an unreasonable person, all i require is prior consultation and agreement,but the bare face cheek of it! I sharent be coughing up the full price , however I may consider a contribution, in an aid to keep the peace

OP posts:
CrispyCod · 29/08/2012 21:50

I wouldn't pay them a penny.

monsterchild · 29/08/2012 22:04

I'm sure someone else has said this, but the letter states the total cost was 400. "The total costs of replacing your fence panels are split into £250 for parts and transportation and £150 labour."
You are only responsible for half at the most. He's getting benefit from this fence and it's joint property.

zookeeper · 29/08/2012 22:19

I don't think you are legally bound to pay him a penny given that he went ahead without any discussion BUT, given that if you ever try to sell the property you would have to declare any disputes, I would would do your utmost to settle it amicably with the silly fucker

Lilylightfoot · 29/08/2012 22:41

I would check he put in the right place and has not move it a little your way, making sure he sees you doing before you pay him a penny. cheeky thing

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 29/08/2012 22:50

Make sure you see receipts/invoices for work done

Go and inspect the property and
a) make sure he hasn't moved the boundary
b) that the fence has been constructed to a satisfactory standard (make sure posts are in properly etc)

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 29/08/2012 22:53

Just reread the "invoice"

do you think there's a thread on netmums asking for help in composing a formal letter?

BoneyBackJefferson · 29/08/2012 23:32

Otheregos

As you've said that its shared I would go with this part of NameGames post

"I might write to him expressing surprise that he didn't seek to consult. But say that in order to maintain a civil relationship I would be willing to overlook his actions and would not seek criminal or civil action against him, providing that his decision to choose and install fencing on his own initiative meant he was taking on responsibility and liability for the new physical boundary.

Of course that doesn't help keep things happy with the neighbour, but you don't want him thinking he can walk all over you either. If he does start being uncivil to your tenants you could point out to him that he is much more vulnerable to bad neighbour relations than they are, since it is easy for tenants to move and you might not be so considerate when deciding who to have in the house for the next set..."

geegee888 · 30/08/2012 00:11

YANBU. How ridiculous! The bit "I have found it necessary to have these replaced prior to contacting you" is all you need not to pay. I'm not even sure a boundary fence is a legal requirement, and he certainly should not be damaging your property without your permission. Never mind no receipt! And a boundary fence is hardly an essential requirement! Its not like a roof, or a wall, or a door...

It actually sounds like a scam. I'd be tempted to contact the police, get them to warn him and complain he's harassing you and trying to extort money from you.

I bet he thinks because you are a landlord, you will be so scared of putting a single foot wrong, he can scam you for cash.

I absolutely wouldn't pay. Let him sue in a small claim if he wants (bet he won't) and counter-claim for damage to your property.

JennerOSity · 30/08/2012 15:40

Otheregos Nooooo to a contribution - how will he learn the error utter-crapness of his ways then? I'm a strong advocate for education personally. Grin

Original poster
Otheregos · 30/08/2012 20:16

A little update, which has made me chuckle...and yes I need to get out more.

Just reread the letter,his address is at the top num 87, then 'said' properties address num 85... But our property is num 83 haha, he's put the wrong house number, so just to be a pain in the ass my first letter of response is going to be along the lines, unfortunately I am not the landlady of 'said' property SmileWink

OP posts:
ErmahgerdPerngwens · 30/08/2012 21:01

Well, I was coming to offer advice but it sounds like you have it all under control. Smile

Has he replaced fences for the entire street? If he isn't NDN this sounds even more like a scam...

ShiftyFades · 30/08/2012 21:59

Oh dear, he couldn't even get the address right.... Get those fence panels checked, certainly wouldn't trust his workmanship now!! Wink

giveitago · 30/08/2012 22:07

Erm - your fence and hence your responsibility so he needed to inform you of the damage and then you act ie get your quotes and your contractor to do.

I'd be very pissed of at this. Our neighbours fence came down recently all over our property - they got it done -I was very pleased that they got it done within a week. Had nothing happened I would have informed them after about 10 days and then waited another two weeks before having another chat.

You don't need to pay for work that people did on your behalf before you knew of the problem - particularly not wanting to pay if a contractor was choses on your behalf?

Goodness! Sounds a bit dodgy to be me.

housespouse · 31/08/2012 12:27

Where is number 85?

Personally, I would not nitpick on house numbering errors, which will only inflame the situation and delay conclusion of the matter, but instead address the facts calmly and politely.

I am not sure it helps you that much that the boundary is "joint" as this seems to be what he thought all along as he put that he repaired "your" fence panels AND 'his" fence panels so maybe he split it 50:50.

The fact still remains that he is being grossly unreasonable, so you don't need to focus on side issues. Stick to asking for invoices and pointing out that he should have tried to contact you before taking repairs into his own hands but that you will consider a goodwill gesture of payment of a reasonable sum (get quotes and pay the lowest) on receipt of proper invoices.

eggsandwich · 31/08/2012 12:38

The cheek of it !! As a landlord myself I would be incline to contact him and say, why did you not contact my tenant to say you had an issue with the condition of the fence, you also should not of carried out any work on my property without out prior approval from me, and for £400 I would of expect a brick wall not a fence.

TraineeBabyCatcher · 31/08/2012 13:18

He sounds like a cheeky bugger trying to lay the cost on someone else other than himself.

We recently had one of the adjoining boundaries replaced, the council refused to do it as its not a legal requirement, next door seemed to be putting it off (i asked numerous times over the 8 months between the damage and replacement) and in the end I replaced them myself.
I didn't ask anyone to contribute because I made the final decision and decided to suck up the cost because at least then it was done (and I got to choose)

Our boundary was 30ft and cost £150