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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this person has an absolute cheek and not to pay up?

135 replies

Otheregos · 29/08/2012 13:58

Good afternoon everyone,
I am a long term lurker, but this has really bugged me so just thought I'd see what others opinions/views are

Here goes... We rent out a house,have Very nice tenants. Received a call yesterday from our tenant to say they have got an invoice for us from next door ( adjoining semi ) for the fence? Wtf? We spoke for a while and it appears our neighbours have gone ahead and ripped down our boundary fence( and the rest of theirs) and replaced it, he is now expecting £400 for this fence...way over priced, it's only about 20feet. This neighbour has had no communication with us or the tenants, the first we knew about it was from the phone call yesterday.

Been to pick up said invoice...which is actually just a typed letter no proof of purchase for the fencing..and if you've not fallen asleep yet reading this post,this is what they have written

Sir/ma'am, due to the recent bad weather and poor maintenance of the fence panels at said property, I have found it necessary to have these replaced prior to contacting you. As you are probably aware the weather has been quite bad of late. This has resulted in said fence panels for the said property which as landlord you are responsible for becoming severely damaged and a health risk due to them being at a state where they could fall down at any moment. as a father of 2 young children I felt that these needed replacing as a matter of urgency, along with my fence panels which I also replace at the same time. The total costs of replacing your fence panels are split into £250 for parts and transportation and £150 labour. The total sum that I request from you is £400 to recompensate me for the costs of having your fence panels replaced at such short notice. I would appreciate payment by cheque of bacs transfer to blah blah account. If you can settle this sooner rather than later that would be very much appreciated as this has left my finances considerably short for this month.

I'm picking now but he spelt panels pannels!

So my problems are,
A) our tenant said the fence was actually ok, we had previously about 4 months ago replaced the other side as our tenant had contacted us about it and like normal people we spoke with the neighbours ( other side) and an agreement was made to go halves and get 3 quotes...so this is what I would have expected from these people.

B) you cannot go asking for money with no proof of costs etc.its a rented house and we have to keep records like any other business

C) even if we are responsible for that boundary( not sure yet as I need to check the deeds) people can't just rip down your fence...surely this is classed as criminal damage ?

I realise I am completely rambling now, but any comments or what you think we should do most appreciated...

Thanks for reading if you've made it to the end! Smile

OP posts:
mumnosGOLDisbest · 29/08/2012 15:56

he hasnt any rights. our friends neighbour painted his side of her new fence and had to replace it as it was her boundary and her property. he shouldnt have gone ahead without consulting you first but if he's done a good job id offer whatever you think is reasonable. maybe get a quote to show him if you think he's overcharging you.

clam · 29/08/2012 15:58

So, he thought he'd shift his (self-inflicted) cash-flow problem on to you then?
Arse.

DontmindifIdo · 29/08/2012 15:59

Even if it is your responsibility, you only have a responsibilty to mark the boundary, a fence isn't needed if you don't want to put one in.

I would refuse, he has no proof the fence was down, even if it was, he's got no proof he tried to contact you, and even if the fence had blown down and was a 'health hazzard' you would only be required to remove the panels that had blown down (assuming in his garden) and then mark in some way the boundary - a bit of string between the fence posts would be legally acceptable.

Let him try to take you to a small claims, he'll be laughed out.

Thumbwitch · 29/08/2012 16:01

Dontmind - not only has he no proof of attempt to contact, he has blatantly said he DIDN'T try to contact the OP! Shot himself in the foot there. Fool.

NameGames · 29/08/2012 16:02

One word of warning OP, we had neighbours who pulled down our fence and replaced it (at their expense) while we were renting our property out for a couple of years. They managed to move the boundary nearly a foot into our garden and put a gate in at a less-good-for-us to access their right of way across our garden for rear access. I suggest going to the house to double check the new fence's location.

Unless you have a convenient in place there is no legal requirement for you to have a fence or wall or anything physical as your boundary. Even if the fence had been dangerous and in urgent need of emergency removal before it fell on his children, at best he could take it down and offer you the fence panels back. He has no grounds for choosing and installing a fence on the boundary at your expense. I might write to him expressing surprise that he didn't seek to consult. But say that in order to maintain a civil relationship I would be willing to overlook his actions and would not seek criminal or civil action against him, providing that his decision to choose and install fencing on his own initiative meant he was taking on responsibility and liability for the new physical boundary.

Of course that doesn't help keep things happy with the neighbour, but you don't want him thinking he can walk all over you either. If he does start being uncivil to your tenants you could point out to him that he is much more vulnerable to bad neighbour relations than they are, since it is easy for tenants to move and you might not be so considerate when deciding who to have in the house for the next set...

milli2512 · 29/08/2012 16:05

What a bloody cheek! If he genuinely felt it was that dangerous then surely he could have kept his children out of the garden for a day or two until he had spoken to you about it. To make no effort to communicate with you prior to replacing them is out of order. Even a numpty must have an inkling he's trying his luck! I would definitely ask for invoice/receipt for panels and how he came to a figure of £150 for labour if he did it himself. Also have they been installed properly? I.e. correct depth. You don't want them blowing down in 6mths. As others have said if his side is not your responsibility then tough titties.

If things do escalate you may have some legal expenses cover with your landlords (buildings insurance). Usually includes 'property protection', which may cover such a situation.

Hope you manage to resolve the matter.

HeadfirstOverTheHighJump · 29/08/2012 16:19

I wouldn't pay him a penny, just on principle.

He rips out YOUR fencing, which was fit for purpose, replaces it with fencing HE has chosen and the first you hear of it is when he bills YOU??? Fuck that.

hairytale · 29/08/2012 16:33

I wouldntt part with a penny. People can't go about spending money and then asking other people for a contribution. He should have contacted you if he was bothered about the fence.

bobbledunk · 29/08/2012 16:43

Don't pay a penny, they should have contacted you first and I wouldn't trust the numbers either.

TheVermiciousKnid · 29/08/2012 16:47

Tell him that the old fence had huge sentimental value for you (put up by your great great grandparents, or something like that) and you are absolutely heartbroken that it's gone. Nothing will make up for this loss of course, but a cheque or BACS transfer for £1000 would go a little way towards healing those deep emotional wounds.

drjohnsonscat · 29/08/2012 16:50

Grin at vintageviolet's idea

lottiegarbanzo · 29/08/2012 17:27

Yes, the letter helps you. He could have claimed he tried to contact you but tenants not there or uncooperative. Even then he shouldn't have gone ahead. He's trying it on.

clam · 29/08/2012 17:35

Just re-read his appallingly written letter and I reckon he fancied a new fence, wanted your bit to match, so got the whole lot done and decided he'd chance his arm with you coughing up for a chunk of it.

Do NOT pay this - at least not without putting the fear of God into him first about going ahead without your agreement. Cheeky bugger.

confusedpixie · 29/08/2012 17:43

Shock YANBU, cheeky bastard! No idea what you can do about it though, I know nothing about home ownership Blush

I'm glad you're telling him to get stuffed though, I bet he is going to try charge for the full amount, cheeky arse.

SlightlySuperiorPeasant · 29/08/2012 17:50

YANBU and his letter is hilarious. I wouldn't be paying anything at all.

NicolasGirl · 29/08/2012 18:06

It sounds like criminal damage to me if they are your panels and he took them down, and even theft if he has disposed of them. The fact that he has replaced them might just about compensate you for his criminal act Grin

I believe that unless it is specified in the deeds, there is no legal obligation to have a physical boundary between properties, unless you keep certain animals or dangerous chemicals etc.

I would suggest a call to your solicitor or CAB to clarify - he sounds a delight!

clam · 29/08/2012 18:11

When we rang the council about the boundary to our old house, they said that it is apparently a commonly-help misconception about it being the left-hand fence that is yours. Worth checking out. On the deeds, there should little T marks showing your boundary although, apparently, even that is open to negotiation, according to the same council lady!
I was quite shocked. Negotiation isn't possible with some people.

TandB · 29/08/2012 18:15

I would just reply with "er, no".

LemonBreeland · 29/08/2012 18:21

Ha ha cheeky bugger. He couldn't have contacted you before he did it as obviously fence panels are one of those emergency life or death situations Hmm

He would not see a penny from me.

helenthemadex · 29/08/2012 18:52

I like Craic suggestions, the second one would probably be the way to go though, tempting though it is to do the first one Grin

He is trying it on, and by the look of things trying to get you to pay for his fencing as well looking quickly online these people charge £30 a panel fitting and they are professionals

ShiftyFades · 29/08/2012 20:33

Clam has a valid point.
My old line manager's wife worked for Land Registry and said "the left hand side boundary is a myth"
Our deeds don't show who "owns" a boundary, that means they're shared. So any changes / replacement fall under the Party Wall Act I guess.
The best anyone (in normal circumstances) can hope for is that you and a neighbour agree to change the fence and split the cost.
But if you want to change it because you want something nicer and your neighbour doesn't agree then, as long as they agree with you doing the change, you can change it but you stump up the full cost.

clam · 29/08/2012 20:45

Our garden adjoins 5 other people's! When we wanted a new fence, we stumped up for the whole lot as we wanted it all matching. Fortunately, everyone else was agreeable.

WhereYouLeftIt · 29/08/2012 20:54

Sorry, haven't read most of the responses, just the OP's posts so this may have already been raised.

I'm just intrigued by the language in the letter. It's so very stilted and formal (e.g. said property) it put me in mind of those Nigerian scam emails. And the overcharging - again, so remimiscent of those 'passing builders' who knock on doors to say they can see a problem with your chimney from the road, they've got their ladders with them, would you like them to have a look at it. It all just reeks of deliberate SCAM. By people well-versed in the art of scamming. As such, would your neighbours be known to the local police?

HomeEcoGnomist · 29/08/2012 20:56

Can't believe the brass neck of some people

Our lovely neighbours had new people move in on the other side, who pulled down their fencing, threw it on the bonfire then announced that Nice Neighbours had to pay for a replacement, as it was their fence after all Shock

Pyromaniac Neighbours did not get an invite to NN's party on sat

They are always burning things as well - they must actually be chopping up furniture now. Antisocial buggers!

Mum72 · 29/08/2012 20:59

OMG!! The bare faced cheek!

I reckon he has doubled to cost so even if you go halves you are actually paying the full whack for his choice of fence.

I also agree with the person that suggested you go and take a look at the fence and check the boundary against your deeds! If he has the cheek to replace a fence and ask for money he probably has the cheek to nick a foot or 2 or your land.