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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu -father wants me to commit fraud!!?

186 replies

pumpkinsweetie · 25/08/2012 23:32

As some of you may know, my father is also my landlord. Boiler was serviced 4 days ago and then condemned. We have been without heating and hot water for over a week due to boiler being declared dangerous by gas meter engineer.
Landlord/df came over yesterday, promised to fit an immersion and get me electric radiators until he has the money to complete it (apparently £4000). So fine and dandy thought atleast we were getting somewhere (sigh)..........until today: he has rung me and asked me to pretend i own the house so i can get a grant for the boiler!!

Wtaf: my own df is now expecting ME to commit fraud to save his own neck. Mentioned immersion to him, he said maybe monday, maybe tues.

Even if i went ahead with this crazed idea, it will not work as im not in receipt of any of the benefits needed to get one!

I obviously said to him i will be found out, he said "no you won't they won't look into who owns the house"?!!- knowing full well i recieve an amount of hb, of course they will know my name and address and know im RENTING
Wwyd

OP posts:
Longtalljosie · 26/08/2012 17:21

I will tell you - but first - how much is your rent?

Longtalljosie · 26/08/2012 17:22

You don't necessarily need an immersion, that's just an electric heater for the water.

Original poster
pumpkinsweetie · 26/08/2012 17:23

Like i said im going down the council tues afternoon to get on the housing list on the basis of having no hot water or heating of any kind. If we do not succeed the next step is to report him then go private if all else fails

OP posts:
Original poster
pumpkinsweetie · 26/08/2012 17:23

My rent is £550

OP posts:
BlackberryIce · 26/08/2012 17:25

Just go on the list anyway..... This problem won't put you at the top of any list because it is fixable. And he can be forced to fix it.

QuintessentialShadows · 26/08/2012 17:26

Nobody is going to take your children into care over this. But you do need to get tough on your dad-landlord. He is counting on you not making a fuss, another tenant WOULD. You dont know how your rent is spent. He should have landlords insurance, the mortgage depends on it! Any lender would take a dim view if they found out he did not have buildings insurance.

Longtalljosie · 26/08/2012 17:30

OK. It's possible he's been quoted from British Gas who do tend to be more expensive. I would get three quotes yourself from local accredited heating engineers. Explain you have a bad landlord and need the cheapest system - that you're not bothered about it working long term, you just want a heating system which will be legal and safe for this winter.

Once in possession of your three quotes, I would ask the engineer you choose if they are prepared to accept £550 / month from you until the bill is cleared. It's possible they may charge interest on later payments.

Once this is agreed, write to your father. Explain that he needs to replace the boiler and you have discovered this can be done for £XX. Either he can meet the bill himself or you will be withholding rent in order to pay for it. How he pays the mortgage without your rent is his problem.

QuintessentialShadows · 26/08/2012 17:33

Do you know roughly his mortgage payments? I pay less than 300 pcm for a three bed terrace in London. (I know some pay more than me, but I was lucky with my tracker mortgage)

BlackberryIce · 26/08/2012 17:33

Does the housing benefit go directly to him?

teenagersmother · 26/08/2012 17:33

For all those posters who are stating that 'proper' landlords always charge advance rental and take deposits.... you are wrong. Not all of us do. I have tenants in two properties who have paid neither of these and I assure you that they both have valid tenancy agreements and are treated well as I am a 'proper landlord'.

However, when my tenanats have a problem with my properties I do my utmost to sort things as soon as possible. Its worked well for me for 7 years. Oh and one of my tenants is my daughter at the moment. That makes no difference at all (no, she isn't claiming hb but has in the past and it is NOT a contrived policy.)

OP Your dad is a disgrace for not getting the heating sorted out quickly. Are you sure you wouldn't get any grant? I have had cavity wall insulation put in both my properties thanks to my tenants getting grants and I only had to give my permission for that.

MmeLindor · 26/08/2012 17:43

Longtolljosie has a good idea, but I would urge you to check first that this is legal.

I don't think that a tenant is allowed to simply withhold the rent - and if your father gets pissy then he could take you to court for the withheld rent.

I am no lawyer, which is why you should get expert advise.

fergoose · 26/08/2012 17:49

Why should you set up a credit agreement to pay for a new boiler - that is nuts!

And this going on the housing list is a total red herring, you are not homeless, you would not get to the top of the list if you have a dodgy boiler!

You need to report him for breaking the law - let them enforce him sorting out the boiler and water. And in the meantime if the house in uninhabitable you would prob be able to sue him for the cost of emergency accommodation too. This dodgy boiler is not a get out of jail free card to get you a council property.

fergoose · 26/08/2012 17:49

And no you cannot with-hold rent - that can make you voluntarily homeless.

JimmyFlip · 26/08/2012 17:49

This is what makes me so insensed by the rental system we have in place.
My sympathies too you OP as this situation is not your doing and you are a victim here.

People should not be allowed a mortgage to rent out a property without a proper business plan. Is his mortgage company aware you live there? I doubt it.

If they are aware and have okayed it, then IMO they bloody well shouldn't have, because savings for maintenance should be mandatory to protect the tenant (or mortgage comp should lend on the strength of the business plan).

The likelihood (given what you have described about your father) is that they are not aware, so he will probably be in the shit if they find out. I don't wish to scare you op but if this is the case, and for any reason he defaults on the mortgage (even with you paying rent to him) the mortgage company can legally evict you with 2 days notice and put the house up for sale. I know this from bitter experience, with wanker landlords who went abroad, letting their property through an agent, having signed to say that they had permission when they didn't. Letting agents obviously legally don't need to actually check this, which is WRONG. We thought everything was above board.

They pocketed our hard earned cash, didn't pay their mortgage and left us vulnerable to being kicked out when bailiffs came knocking when I was 5 months pregnant. As it was we were given 2 months notice, but that still left us homeless at 7 months pg.

I couldn't face B&B so we borrowed to private rent again, from a landlord who said "yes, there's no mortgage on the property and we're very happy to let on a long term basis, after an intitial 6 month contract". 6 months later, up for sale.

Thankfully, we are now in a good long term rental position through people we trust, who have a proper business and contingency plan.

MmeLindor · 26/08/2012 18:15

Fergoose,

Thanks for that clarification. I suspected that.

Don't do this, OP. You could end up paying for the boiler and still being liable for rent.

And it is not your responsibility, it is your fathers.

(as an aside, withholding of rent is allowed in Germany. Wish it were in UK too, then bastard landlords would not get away with this)

Original poster
pumpkinsweetie · 26/08/2012 18:20

JimmyFlip-you are right the mortgage company have no idea we live here

OP posts:
fergoose · 26/08/2012 18:21

so he doesn't even have the correct buy to let mortgage - wow, this is unbelievable. So he can be in trouble with the bank too? Does he pay taxes or does he avoid doing that also I wonder?

Original poster
pumpkinsweetie · 26/08/2012 18:27

I don't know fergoose especially after all this has been uncovered. I only found out recently about him not letting on to the mortgage company as they kept phoning my house and i was starting to get suspisious so i asked df why they were phoning here and he told me if they phone again to say he is out or unavailable.

Im not expecting a get out of jail card but tbf the council are useless and always have been unless you are of course on every benefit going. There should be affordable housing but there just isn't

OP posts:
Wowserz129 · 26/08/2012 18:32

Pumpkin you just need to get tough! Speak to DF tell him it's not on and that you are going to say something about it, get on housing list and report him,

Sallyingforth · 26/08/2012 18:37

OP I say again..

it's not your job to get the boiler replaced, it's the landlord's.

According to Shelter, the council's environmental health department can force landlords to do repairs. Read this page..

england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repairs_and_bad_conditions/disrepair_in_rented_accommodation/repairs_in_private_lets/contacting_environmental_health

Would you mind telling us which council area you are in?

fergoose · 26/08/2012 18:38

so by letting out a property without a correct buy to let mortgage he is basically risking the bank foreclosing on that mortgage with immediate effect.

Sallyingforth · 26/08/2012 18:49

For instance if you were living in Lambeth,

Once your complaint is received, our officers will normally arrange to visit your property to inspect the disrepair.
...
Wherever possible, we will work with the landlord to remedy any disrepair. However, where co-operation is not achieved, and the property remains in an 'unsafe' or 'hazardous' condition the local authority will use its powers to take enforcement action to deal with hazards in the interests of the health and safety of occupants, and particularly, in relation to vulnerable households.

www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/HousingPlanning/PrivateHousing/AdvicePrivateTenants/EnvironmentalHealthInspection.htm

Your council will do something similar.

RubixCube · 26/08/2012 19:14

Wow!It's getting worse.His gunna drag you into his mess.Dont do it.Dont lie for him

RubixCube · 26/08/2012 19:25

That man is very selfish.You said he gets his own boiler serviced ffs

Glitterknickaz · 26/08/2012 19:43

What I would do is this - you poor thing OP your head must be spinning.

First thing Tuesday morning ring Shelter - it may be that you can register as homeless due to being in a house not fit for habitation. If this is the case the national shelter line will put you in touch with a local branch who can help you do this and help directly with your dealings with the council. It takes a big weight off. (I know this as we were advised to register as homeless due to our housing association leaving us with no mains water for 72 hours).

If this is not the case Shelter can then assist you directly via your local branch to report to environmental health. They will then compel the repairs to be made or organise for the repairs to be done and charge the landlord.

I have a feeling that going this route (via Shelter) may help you more as it would assuage the (quite wrong) guilt you feel. Someone else will be doing it for you.

None of this is your problem. It's the landlord's problem. Stop thinking about credit, payment plans etc. Go the formal route and get help, I think you need a bit of back up to reduce the stress and anxiety you are feeling.

Good luck and keep posting to let us know how you get on.

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