In thinking 40k income really isn't a fortune??

[mummymacbeth]

Yes, a thread about a thread kind of. And I am fairly sure it has been done before but still!

I really don't think a forty grand gross income is a fortune. Our income with two kids is currently a bit less than that, though has been that in the fairly recent past. It is - and was - a bit of a struggle. We are not in the south east, we do not have a huge mortgage, expensive cars, kids are at state school and we don't manage to get abroad every year. We are living from month to month. A "fortune" it ain't!! (ref the post about someone wondering whether to have a fourth child)

Just find it a bit odd that too regularly in the last 18 years, when I have had to deal with a nurse, I have had to remind them about underlying illnesses, correct notes, remind about timing of medicines and blood tests, etc, and reiterate what I have been told by a doctor when they seem to go off message.

DS almost died because the midwife insisted there wasn't a problem with his heart rate but with a faulty belt/monitor. Fortunately, DH shouted at her and told her to get who was in charge NOW. One glance by the midwife in charge and an emergency team appeared in seconds. Another few minutes and our son would have suffocated.

Perhaps the staff ratios would be helped if the old SEN role were re-established and provided the missing "nursing" care.

From memory Optometrists and Dentists don't get bursaries (because they go into private practice) but radiographers and speech therapists do? it has been about 3 years so may have changed.

True, Spuddy, dentists in practice are not NHS employees but private contractors who can do piece rate work for the NHS. So are GPs (I think....)

Ah okay, you learn something new everyday, i did think all of them were bursaried from what i was told. Maybe they meant all nursing courses were then?

I don't ask for degrees for "admin" jobs or anything non specialist. I ask for Level II quals including passes at B and above for English and Maths. Few candidates have that if they don't have a degree at present but times I think may be changing. All interviews also comprise a written (drafting a letter) and arithmetical test (some simple sums including percentages and working out an average or a median) and some spreadsheet manipulation.

The tests are done well by: those from Russell Group Universities, those with some experience and some work related training or qualifications; or by older candidates (50+ ladies who might have had jobs as school secretaries, etc). If they don't do a good test, I don't appoint; even in this climate it can be hard to appoint.

Not sure what point you think you have proved married
Nursing and Midwifery has always been a "vocation" yes you need the aptitude to knuckle down to hard work - god knows its gritty, tough and heartbreaking to see people at their most vulnerable .
Why intelligence and academia is apparently the flip side to this is beyond me
I would rather be nursed by someone kind AND intelligent .Someone who believes Nursing is their life.
The above description is me . It is my life .

I recently spoke to a Tutor who will be interviewing current applicants to Nursing Degrees - they are of the opinion that we will be back to the days of selection. A good thing imho .
We will have Nursing students of the highest quality and hopefully Nursing will be something to be proud of rather than hiding for fear of abuse.

I completely agree MrsBaggins.

I'm glad it's your life Mrs Baggins and would have been honoured to be treated by you. However, ime, I've seen a little too much of kind and not intelligent or intelligent and not kind when dealing with your profession and not enough of the two skills combined. It is very difficult to believe nursing is the nurse's life when the nurse or midwife regales you with how over worked she is, how underfunded the service is, or shouts at you for letting the maternity pad slip and getting blood on the bed. Admittedly that was a long time ago but I suspect the funding hasn't improved so do wonder what they were complaining about 18 years ago.

I have actually had a degree midwife write up my notes incorrectly in relation to a previous pg and note the outcome incorrectly.

married i think you would be in a minority. I've worked in recruitment, uni's and HR for quite a while and everyone asks for a degree. In fact even if you do a job without a degree necessary and you just do it anyway, if the employer is replacing you they will say 'x had a degree so the next should have a degree'.

I worked in a really easy admin job after uni, 2 out of 3 colleagues all equal to my role also had degrees (we were all just looking for something better). When the job was advertised no degree was necessary. When the colleague without the degree left they added degree to the job spec, as the other 3 of us had one (incidentally certainly not relevant at all) so therefore it wouldn't be fair to employ a non graduate and pay them the same paltry 14k per year that we were on. Therefore, it became a grad job.

Well, I'm in the same field spuddy. Started at the bottom when dd started school and have worked my way up from 8k to more than 40k (without a degree ). I just say "they don't need a degree, they need to be able to do the job" and sign off the amended paperwork for approval . Often we get better candidates and it widens the field.

Can you list what you spend your money on as,I'm intrigued why you overspend.

I agree married i would love it. But when the employer insists i can't do anything. Mum is also in recruitment (for 40 odd years) and she despairs. It is part of the reason that people get mediocre degrees and uni's can churn them out.

The collapse of some degrees sadly is what the education system needs (even if it means i am out of a job!) imo.

I'm recruiting internally though, not placing them with employers, so I think you are in a more difficult position. I think times will change though and hopefully there will be a bit more realism injected into the system.

Im so sorry to hear that married
But I really dont think its fair to deride a whole profession on one experience.
When I was pregnant and overdue with my first DC I had a really crappy,arrogant pig of a doctor roughly examine me - I dont base my views of doctors on this . Most of them are lovely ,professional people.

I do take on board what you are saying as regards underfunding,overwork and I have experienced staff saying this ( no matter how unprofessional) sometimes its hard to bear the brunt of anger when you have been run ragged for 13 hours and are simply trying your best.
Its very demoralising to know when you go to work determined to give your all - that your all will never be enough

But people always struggled and didn't have much. The problem isn't that everyone is struggling but that there has been too much credit, too much expectation of instant gratification and too much media helping people think they can have it all. Quality of life improved; expectations improved; but the underlying economy was deteriorating and a bubble of bank and personal debt was rising - what goes up must come down. Sadly everyone forgot that happens.

This might haunt me but I reckon by this time next year there will be growth in incomes (small). I think property will take much longer to recover but that's a helpful adjusment for all those not caught now who admittedly are in a difficult position.

Bumblequeen
So basically, if you live in a cheaper house/ area, become a sahm, don't buy anything you can't afford so no debt you could never struggle again.

Of course 40k isn't a fortune. Not objectively. I don't really see how that can be up for debate.

It is comfortable and better than average but tat doesn't make it a fortune.

Loads of people have said that it seems like a fortune compared to what they have. I'msure that's true. It seems like a lot to me too. That doesn't mean it is.

If there needs to be any discussion about priorities, compromises, alternatives or choices then it isn't a fortune. A fortune would allow you to spend without worry or consideration

I've been on that 'listen to taxman' website/calculator (highly recommend it btw).

Just now our income is £9k. Next year it will be £30k. If we don't get tax credits anymore (I don't think we will) then we will only be £300pcm better off.

That's not what you'd expect is it?

I'm not even including travel to work costs or student Liam repayments in that, or pension contributions which would reduce the difference even more.

But I think where people go wrong (myself included) is they think a person on £40,000 a year will be twice as rich as somebody on £20,000. They won't be. Even without any kind of tax credits they would pay a lot more tax. And if you take into account tax credits then I don't think there would be a huge difference.

I think it's middle income people, living in expensive areas and with hefty travel costs and childcare costs that seem to really struggle. Not saying they're the only ones. Of course they're not. But huge chunks of their money is going on these things.

Does anyone know how much you can earn and get childcare element thingy. I didn't know that existed

I earn £25k Dp earns £19 so we don't get any tax credits

We have two children under three, both in nursery 4 days a week

If I reduced my hours so they were only I'm nursery three days a week would I get this childcare element thing?

I'm crap at maths, I can't work it out

We live just outside Edinburgh, Scotland, I am SAHM , DH works, we have 3 DC, he brings home between £43-£48k per yr depending on his overtime etc.
We have 4 cats, 1 dog, 1 rat, 3 mice, 2 horses, live in a lovely farm cottage, have Sky HD full package,blackberry phones,4x4 car. We eat out 3 or 4 times a mth, we have gym memberships and go daily, we have healthcare/pensions/life insurance ( needed with his job) that come off DH wage before we even have the £ in the bank so dont miss it, pay £60 into credit union each mth again via his work, children go swimming/shopping with friends, have nice clothes etc.
We have debt we pay each mth, we dont scrimp on food, children always have what they need when they need it, we dont have credit cards/store cards any more, if we need something we pay cash, we dont have the cash, we have to save for it.
We are VERY lucky to be able to do this and I fully get that not everyone can, we have a strict budget that we attempt to stick too, I am the one who spends way too much and need to cut back, it can be tight some mths, example Sept, we have 10 birthdays, all family (DD1/DH/DBIL/DN'S/DSIL etc) but we manage. I find it a little strange when ppl say they are struggling on £50k+ a yr, we would be able to put so much money away with that, but it really does depend on priorities/lifestyle/childcare etc i guess.