To ask for my money back even though they're having a baby soon?

[SometimesEverything]

I have a bit of a crappy history with my brother and SiL:

link to previous thread

Yes, I know. I didn't have the balls to take my money back then but alot happened over the summer when everyone was busy with fasting and I just put it off.

Today SiL has told me she is pregnant. She is due soon. They still owe me money (£5K). If I asked for the money now, would it seem like I'm being a mean bitch?

Oh and although I am overjoyed that another baby will be coming into the family, I can't help but feel this is another competitive thing for SiL. I told her about my pregnancy when I was 20 weeks due to having loads of previous miscarriages. She's told me at 30 weeks. She is already comparing if she has a boy, how my son will not be the youngest boy in the family anymore. She just told me how her daughters were saying that when the baby was born they will show off and make everyone jealous with pictures . I am scared that my son will be put into a one sided competition by SiL for the rest of his life.

Should I phone DB and tell him we're going into overdraft now, and that we need our money back. We're not in overdraft yet, but can see it happening in the next 3-4 months. I'm still job hunting.

I am afraid I haven't read your previous thread. However, the money is yours, not theirs and so you have every right to ask for it back without having to give reasons or make excuses.

As for being the youngest / most favoured etc. That is a very unhealthy competition to get into. I too come from a horribly competitive family. I have learned over the years, from my lovely husband, that you should just refuse to compete. Totally takes the wind out of their sails. When they say, "You must be jealous" reply with, "You have a very lovely baby". When they say it is the youngest / cutest / fattest / pinkest / most hairy - agree. They can say nothing in reply because what they want from you is competition.

My sisters constantly tell me of their exotic holidays and 5* hotels. I just reply with," How lovely for you - we are going to Devon" or similar. When they say about their new car, I tell them mine is an old banger.

No competition. Really. I works.

Rose, thanks for replying.

I know it's unhealthy, and I don't take part in it with her. But boys are really important to her (cultural thing). She was devastated when she had a second daughter. Now she knows she's having a boy and is already eyeing DS in the things he does...how much he eats, how he's crawling. I know this will just depress me even more when she gives birth and starts the competition with me. I already smile and nod and agree when she shows off about her daughters.

Your DB had also borrowed 10k from his brother - did he ever pay him back? I don't know him (obviously!) but it sounds a little like perhaps he has no intention of paying either of you back?

I would say 1) do not lend him more under any circumstances! and 2) perhaps try and take a lesser approach to getting the money back - either ask for £x a month or just randomly ask him to repay £500 here and there without warning. Both ideas carry risks though. I would be starting to think about writing the cash off and pushing them out my life - but I hope I'm wrong!

I saw your previous thread. Sil quite manipulative regarding a wedding.

Unless you have anything in writing, it is unlikely you will get your money back. You can ask, but don;t expect to receive it.

There is a saying - neither a borrower nor a lender be which means - never lend anything you cannot afford to lose.

Your SIL is a nasty piece of work. You need to learn how to manage her dreadful behaviour.

I really do empathise with you on this matter.

Ask for it back, it's not like their finances will improve once the baby comes. They may as well pay it now.

Thanks for the replies. No, will definitely not be lending him any more!

Yes, Jumping, I will need to learn how to manage. Just scared what lovely things she will come out with to compare my son with hers. I don't know why she is competitive with me. There is such a big age gap she shouldn't do it with someone so much younger than her. If I keep away, I will be made out to be a horrible Aunt. If I do keep in contact I will be constantly put down and my son too.

It would seem better to ask for it now than after the baby wouldn't it?

Do you have any proof that the money was a loan? Cos I can see this getting nasty :(

But yes, you should ask for it back. You can ill afford for them to be living large on your cash, and make it clear that you and your family is suffering while they are sending their dd's to private school.

Ok, so it wouldn't seem rude to ask for my money back now...

I don't have any proof, bogeyface :( But my DH is witness to me giving the money, and family knows that he has taken this money from me on loan.

i would word it carefully though.

Dont say "Do you think you could give it back?" as the answer will be no. Dont say "When will you be able to give it back" as the answer will be "Not yet, excuses....excuses.....excuses..."

Say "We need that money back that you owe us. Here are my bank details, can you have it back in my account by the second week in September (Or whenever)" Then in response to the outrage/excuses/lies say "I am sorry that you feel like that but the money was given as a loan and we need it back."

DO NOT accept excuses, payment plans or anything else. This is YOUR money, you need it, they MUST pay it back. Dont be afraid to make a song and dance about it because I rather suspect that "look at me" SIL wont be happy to have everyone knowing that they owe you money and wont pay it back. They can say all sorts of things about you, but the fact is that they would be welching on a loan and that doesnt make them look good, and she knows that.

Thanks for that advice Bogeyface. The last few times I've always said "Do you think you can give it back soon". Maybe that's where I've been going wrong. I can't talk about it face to face, as I know I'll get all flustered, so was thinking of sending a text message or email to DB.

I think I've said in my previous thread, I thought they'd have a bit of shame and give the money back when my son was born in January, but they didn't.

I'm going to add my two cents here even though some may not like it.

I am not a stranger to Asian culture, and have read your previous thread, so wasn't particularly surprised at the competitiveness and gossiping that was going on with regards to your sis in law etc. The preference for boys thing as well is abhorrent as well as being totally forbidden by Islam..I'm assuming by you mentioning fasting that you guys are muslim.

I would advise that you maintain a civilised relationship with your brother because he is your blood, and that you keep a distance from his wife. These types of women are jealous of younger/attractive women, as well as richer more accomplished women, and they can be very poisonous. If you are a muslim, then look to Islam for the answers on how to rebuff her nastiness. Namely being kind and indifferent towards people like this usually wins in the end because it shames them.

Asian culture, although colourful and fun in many ways, has dark undertones to it. I am currently having many problems dealing with the pakistani culture in particular with regards to some issues my own family have. The preference for boys over girls is nothing new, the lack of adherence to the religion and the desperation for the 'best' wedding and all the material items is quite frankly disgusting and something I have seen way too much in the last year. Anyway OP, that's not to say you and your dh/family aren't lovely decent people, I'm sure you are, but culture has a lot to answer for in the way some, such as your sis in law, behave and see the world. I hope it works out for you and YANBU!!! Ask for your damn money back girl.

Haven't read the other thread, but honestly to me the important part of your post was :
"Should I phone DB and tell him we're going into overdraft now, and that we need our money back. We're not in overdraft yet, but can see it happening in the next 3-4 months. I'm still job hunting."

They owe you money. You need it back. Everything else is incidental - other than it shows me that you don't want them to think you're asking for it now to be spiteful. You know you're not. It's YOUR money, not theirs, and you need it returned ASAP.

Email rather than text if you are not good face to face. Make it business like and dont put in any grounds for argument.

Dear Brother

I hope you are well (or whatever phrase you normally use), was good to see you on XX

Regarding the £5000 we loaned to you on X date, we need to have the money paid back straight away. I am afraid that our personal circumstances mean that we cant wait any longer for it to be paid back. We need the money by X date, as we really cant manage any longer without it.

We would be happy with cash but if you would prefer to pay it direct into my account then I will ring you with the info.

Thank you for being so understanding

Love

SometimesEverything

Agree with bogeyface
You must ask for the money back and you must do it now. The fact your SIL is pregnant is irrelevant. You don't need to to give a reason, it's your money.

Great advice from bogeyface.

I would alter that slightly - not being a stranger either to asian culture -

Dear Brother

I hope you are well (or whatever phrase you normally use), was good to see you on XX

Regarding the £5000 we loaned to you on X date, we need to have the money paid back straight away. I understand you wouldn't want to be indebted any longer.

We would be happy with cash but if you would prefer to pay it direct into my account then I will ring you with the info.

Thank you for being so understanding

There's too much pussyfooting around these people.

You need to be frank OP and let them know you want your money back..now.

Agree entirely with the two draft emails written above.

Do it now, or you will just be met with a stream of excuses after baby is born.

Keep your distance from them once its sorted, they really sound pretty foul.

Thanks for the great advice bogeyface and jumping.

Just discussed with dh again and he says their having a baby does not mean a loan is written off. They should've thought about the money aspect before getting pregnant. I do agree.

I will send that email tomorrow and let you know what he says.

Whatevergurl, our family is not in favour of either a girl or boy. A baby is a gift regardless of its gender. Sil is what I call a typical Asian who thinks boys are more important than girls. She was blatantly unhappy when I had my son, which was heartbreaking for me because he was born after 4 miscarriages. I was so thankful I had a healthy baby, and tried to keep him away from her so as to not upset her. I will of course be happy for her and db, genuinely, but will still remember her reaction when she found out i was pregnant and when DS was born quite sadly forever.

I'm really pleased for you that you were able to have your little boy and as I said before, pay this woman no heed. It is blatant jealousy and insecurity. I really thought this asian thing of boy preference was over with/dying out, but sadly it's not so.

WhateverGurrl, I know she is jealous and insecure, but why the hell does she have to do it with me? Wish I find a job by the time she has the baby so I have an excuse not to visit often .

Well I just sent the email. I closed my eyes and hit the send button. I felt a bit guilty because I remembered that they will need to buy a new pushchair and car seat and baby things, and she will only buy the most expensive and designer things. But that's not my problem. DB and her have never even bought my DD or DS any presents on birthdays/birth. She has asked for all of DS's old worn and unworn babygrows. I've already said yes, but I don't really want to give them now. I still have plans to hopefully have a third baby in the future. I don't know why she has asked for my son's clothes, when she knows full well I have enough time to want to have another baby in the future. .

"I don't know why she has asked for my son's clothes, when she knows full well I have enough time to want to have another baby in the future."
Well, since you also say that "she will only buy the most expensive and designer things", I'd hazard a guess it's more to do with depriving you of them than it is to her having them (because I somehow doubt she'll use them). I'd even go so far as to say she may have asked to see if you would reply that no, you wanted to keep them for another baby. She does sound that horrible to me.

WhereYouLeftIt, :( I think you may be right. I don't think I will be giving them to her. I will say they're all stained with baby poo or discoloured in the wash or something.

Argh. Why is having a baby turned into a competitive thing with her?! People have babies for themselves, not to compete! I am so frustrated by this already. I am completely dreading meeting her again, and they're coming around for dinner tomorrow .

Do you think he will respond to the email?

Well, if you don't get paid back or get a response that suggest you'll be whistling for it for a while....

...next time she gloats, agree in a preoccupied way and then with a concerned frown tell her that you admire her hugely for how she bears up considering her financial difficulties. Then give her a couple of stained babygros you were planning to throw away (as she wil no doubt be saving every penny) or offer to come to the the charity shop with her. Preferably offer to take her to a shop in another location where no-one will recognise her.