to think that my Mother is manipulative and passive aggressive?

[lowfatiscrap12]

in a nutshell so I don't have to drip feed:

I have three children and live about 230 miles away from my Mother. My sisters both live locally to her and see her daily. And even if they see her in the daytime, they phone her every evening at the same time. I'm not as attentive as that. I phone her regularly (a few times a week) but not daily. And obviously I can't visit her daily either as we live over 200 miles away!
She never phones me. She expects her daughters to phone her. So despite the fact that it's the summer holidays and we have three children (the youngest of which is 9 months old) she gets huffy if I go more than 48 hours without phoning her. We go up there regularly, probably about 8-12 weekends a year minimum. And she comes here for the odd week. She doesn't ask or offer to visit. I suggest it, buy her train ticket etc..(she's on a low income)
She's in her late 70's, retired.
So the big issue at the moment is that we haven't left the elder two (9 and 12) there for a week in the summer holidays. My Mum 'wants to get to know my granddaughters properly' and wants us to stay for a week. We used to go up there for a week (usually dh would drop us there one weekend, pick us up the next) but after 48 hours my Mother (assisted by wine) would get increasingly snippy, bad tempered and difficult.

She's quite old school with children, thinks they should be seen and not heard, should fit in with what the parents do. Arranging activities for the children is an alien concept. She doesn't have transport, so would be reliant on my sisters, when they were there, to leave the house and go anywhere. My eldest daughter in particular, now she is 12, wants to hang out with her friends during the holidays. She finds my Mother hard to be around sometimes, and the thought of me leaving her there, without me, is not nice. I wouldn't be confident doing that. (but would love the peace and quiet!)
I've skirted around the issue and said that we'll come up for long weekends as the girls have lots of activities going on here (which is true, and they've already missed a fortnight of those when we went on holiday) and invited her here.

But she keeps going on about it. When I asked her if she'd like to come and visit here for a week or so, because there's more room, and all the girls belongings here, and I'd send her the train ticket etc. she got huffy and said 'but I want you to stay here for a week'. It's a small house, we have to bring our very small friendly dog (who spends far too much time in a crate because my Mother is worried about getting fur etc. on furniture, despite her dog being free range)

I'm sick of the passive aggressive shit. It's exhausting. My sisters are a tough act for me to live up to. I don't see her daily, phone her daily. They can do this because they live around the corner.I phone about three or four times a week. She doesn't phone me. I think I'll always be the disloyal daughter who dared to move away.

I feel a bit disappointed frankly. Mothers arn't supposed to be like this, are they?

OP I'm so on your side! Yes, your mum wants to see her grandkids, she wants x y and z. But so what? Other people want other things, and she can compromise like everyone else. One problem you have here is that when he gets huffy or complains, you feel bad or think you should give in. Let her huff. She's not in charge of you. I know how difficult it is - your mum isn't going to want to hear the real reasons you don't want to leave your DDs with her, and if you don't tell her, she'll keep on at you.

But you do have some choices. You can say "No, I don't want to let my girls stay with you as you have been violent and aggressive with them and I'm not going to make them do it." Or you can avoid that and say "No, they are doing this or that this summer." And drop it.

Slightly different scenario with my mum as she's not a hitter or shouter, she's just incredibly negative and crap with the kids and completely irresponsible, despite thinking she's god's gift. I've never spelled it out but over the years of me just saying "No, that's not what's happening" and "No, I have arranged nursery for DD today" etc etc it has sunk in. I would never let them stay with her until they are old enough to look after themselves 100%.

And as for phoning, no, everyone else does NOT phone their mum every day. I used to sit through calls with my mum and other family members several times a week. Almost all of them narcissistic, me-me-me, negative moaning marathons that bored me to tears. When I had DC I told them I just didn't have time. My time is precious and it's for my own family, and for myself if I'm lucky.

"My sisters are a tough act for me to live up to." So don't! You're not them, you live far away and you're not on your mum's cheerleading team. Good. Who said you have to be as good at keeping in touch with your mum as your sisters are? It's not the law. And she has them around, so she's lucky. I'm the only one of my siblings that sees my mum at all. The others don't and I respect their choice.

Stop feeling guilty!

lowfatiscrap I really do think that my mother believes that I exist in some kind of stasis and am only activated when she wants to interact with me. She is totally bemused by any idea that I might be busy or have my own life.

I do not phone my mum every day - maybe once a month, she does the same... she is 700miles away and 75 years old and gets on a plane with a change of plane at Edinburgh to come visit every other year (quite capable) - we go up every other year too.

She is never left alone with my kids because she smacked my eldest once on the back of the legs "for being loud". My kids, my rules, she would not apologise, so I did not trust her to never do it again... I would not contemplate sending my kids miles from home to spend time with an aggressive drinker, not once, not ever.

Lowfat - ignore the snipers. No mothers shouldn't be like this.

There seems to be a lot of guilt and doubt, defining your relationship. But then I suspect this runs deep.

You can be free of the guilt and weight of expectation, with or without contact. But you may need to do a bit of soul searching. What about counselling?

My mum used to do huffy phone messages because I hadn't picked up. "Oh, you're not in. Or perhaps you ARE in, you're just deciding not to pick up the phone. I suppose that's up to you but I WOULD like a massive whining session chat soon, please. Huff huff huff."

For years I would phone back, as soon as I got a spare second, all apologetic. But since I said no, fuck this, it's a waste of my time and she doesn't actually give two shits about me - she's stopped doing it. They do it because it guilts you into running around after them. Stop letting it affect you, and they stop doing it.

Som in answer to your question OP, no she would phone me, but either way I was expected to have The Chat fairly regularly. I mean in a way, your situation is ideal because she doesn't phone you! Just don't bother, or reduce it to once a week and if she huffs say "actually I have very little time these days, so it will be once a week/month etc" and stick to it.

After years of counselling, I said no to my mother one day.

Her shock was palpable through the silence that fell on her end of the phone line.

She hardly phones now. I have no fear, no guilt and no sense of obligation. I suspect that was the point of me, to her.

And people who haven't lived with such a mother can be quick to judge.

YANBU. I know very much how you feel.

My mother never rings me either. I ring her often, and get guilt trip if miss couple if days:" your dad said to ring to see if you are all right", etc. I ring to keep the peace and because I find it easier to chat on phone during day, as she often is but under influence in evening

Dd, like yours, no longer wants to stay there herself. They refuse to visit, tho DH has offered to collect them and provide his car for them while here. No go, so short visits there are all we can do.

DM also smokes a lot, and I think funds it easier to stay at home with fags and her own wine than see grandchildren.

I too find it really sad, and would like things to be different, so I am with you!

OP I didn't think you were BU from reading your OP.

I've been in a similar position at various points.

E.g. at one point I was a lone parent F/T student with a toddler and no support network travelling on 2 trains each way to university in a different city each day, leaving the house at 7am and getting home at around 7pm most days, when my grandma was admitted to hospital on the other side of the city.

My mother visited her daily, my young, free and single brother visited a couple of times a week. I visited when I could and phoned her often. My grandma and brother understood but my mother thought I was being completely U and actually said at one point that she thought my grandma ought to change her will to more accurately reflect the disparity in mine and my brother's commitment to her! I didn't have the time, energy or the inclination to drag a toddler around the city any more than I had to and I was, frankly, exhausted.

The problem is that it's been a long time since your mother was the parent of children and she has just forgotten what it is like. That combined with the difference in yours and her expectations of family life means that she just can't understand your position.

I wouldn't expect her to do the journey to yours, although I understand that by suggesting this you are only trying to offer a solution.

I think that all you can do is stand your ground, make the efforts you do and try and switch off. She's getting older, she might be worried about getting old and lonely.

We have no contact with my mother any more, but it has been a good many years since I spoke to her on the phone with any regularity, after she told me she no longer wanted me to phone! So, no, not everyone speaks with their mother that often.

People always reply to these threads from their own personal perspective.

If they have a good relationship with, and are close to, their mothers, people can't always understand that other people don't have that.

It is all controlling behaviour on your Mothers part.

She could come on the train, but she chooses not to; same with not phoning and insisting you go there or the girls do. I would be surprised they want to go at all if she hits them and makes no effort to make them welcome and the stay enjoyable. You need to keep them safe.

It is perfectly possible for elderly people to travel by train. My FIL in his eighties used to come and stay with us. His homehelp and her DH would take him to the station and put him on the right train, we would meet him at the station in London and bring him back to our home from there. He was virtually deaf and blind so couldn't have managed all the journey alone, but he was willing to do it. Obviously as he got more frail we used to fetch him by car and take him home the following week, but this tended to be twice a year with us visiting him in his home every 2-3 months. And we spoke on the phone once a week.

With my parents, it was usually once a week on the phone unless there was something extra to tell them. It was never an issue how often or who phoned who last. I made an exception when Dad died and I rang her every evening for the first fortnight after I returned home from the funeral.

I would just keep doing what you're doing unless you want to reduce the phoning, and keep repeating all the reasons why you will not be doing all the things she wants.

Have you considered she may now have dementia? It can take years to develop without anyone realising, I understand that difficult people become worse as they get older, and this drinking and getting aggressive might always have been an issue; has this become worse in recent years do you think?

Calling every day? Suffocating.

Sounds like you already do a lot wrt communication and visits. You don't have to do exactly the same as your sisters. Why should you? You are you.

If your dds don't want to go without you, them don't make them go.

She does t sound very nice at all. She sounds needy, controlling and tbh, a bit of a bully.

I count my blessings that my parents like to chat only once a week or so, like to visit or us to visit them when it's convenient for all but most of all, wouldn't dream of stropping, demanding or complaining.

I guess that's all part of being grown up; responsible for keeping themselves busy, fulfilled etc. Physical frailty is of course another matter entirely.

I didn't think OP was BU from the first post (without the drip feeding!)

OP I live approx 70 miles from my parents. I visit every 4-6 weeks for a weekend. I speak to my DM on the phone once a week, sometimes she calls, sometimes I do.

My siblings all live in the same town. Their children are all adults now, I'm the only one with youngster. DD has never stayed on her own with my parents, and probably never will. My brother's daughter used to stay occaisionally but none of the others have.

Even without all the other stuff there is no rule that says your children have to stay with her. There is also no rule that says you have to phone her, daily, weekly or even monthly.

I'd just keep doing the broken record thing "No that doesn't work for me." "No that's not happening." "No we don't fancy that." "No."

Good luck

My Mother would never call me, but I try to phone her once a week.
Then I get 'Oh you never have time for me' and she gets all whiney.

What are your sisters opinions about this? Do they have children/leave them there/really enjoy their daily visits?
I think you should stick to your guns. I have an elderly mother who lives around the corner, who loves her grand children to visit, who also loves it when they leave! It sounds a bit like your mother likes the theory of a visit, but in reality, whether she admits it or not, can't really handle it. My mum has completely different parenting style and can get quite snippy, both with me and my dds - that's when it's time to leave. I wonder if that's closer to the truth with your sisters, but no one really wants to admit it? I find it's much 'easier' to handle frequent quick trips, guess with a week long stay, it all gets concentrated and little annoyances get bigger?
Would it be an option for your dd to stay with one of her aunties instead? Although I guess that could cause even more 'trouble'. Don't think there is an easy solution to this, but you are doing what is right for your family and that is what is important. Older parents can be tricky to juggle, it's a bit like the toddler stage at times, only without the option of the naughty step. I have only managed by developing an ability to hum very loudly as I continue on MY way!
Oh, and I do phone my mother daily (have to check she isn't in heap at bottom of stairs), pop round couple times of week, she almost never phones me and I can't remember the last time she came to my house when I didn't fetch her

Forgive me if this sounds harsh but it is what it is. Deal with it and stop driving yourself nuts angsting over something you can't fix.

You are not being unreasonable, you see and call your mother extremely frequently by most people's standards and it can't be helped that your mother wants to see you and your children more often OR that she is being unreasonable about your inability to deliver a doorstep relationship with her.

She has been unpleasant to your children and so they don't want to go and stay with her by themselves. You don't feel the need to force them which again is not unreasonable [even if she thinks at their age they should be just told to come and stay].

Short of buying two iPads and leaving the connection open all day every day, what exactly can you do. Nothing in my view. Tell her you are sorry, you can't improve matters and she will have to deal with it. If she wants her grandchildren to come and visit by themselves she will have to persuade them.

The final [and sorry but this is very harsh] word from me is - you are a grown woman, you can't please everyone least of all a parent [tend not to be relationships with normal boundaries] and you need to deal with that and stop it upsetting you. I'm sure you say no to your children, husband etc on a regular basis without angsting over it ad nauseum. Break the cycle with your mother. You CAN do this without creating a drama and a breakdown in your relationship which you will regret when she passes on. I really do think it is that simple - you can switch on the "I don't care" button.

I phone my mother about once a fortnight

She very rarely phones me

The phone works both ways

And the problem with 2 years of non-communication instigated by her would be what, exactly?

If you tell her (in a reasonable adult fashion) that you are hurt by her not calling you, or that your children cannot stay with her because of her drinking/smacking, and she responds by choosing not to talk to you - that's her choice, isn't it? And when she has had enough of it she knows what to do about it.

Life is far too short to waste all this time and emotion on people who don't love you enough to treat you well. Invest your time in people who like you, and who demonstrate that.

Imagine your daughters are grown up. How are you going to treat them? If you (or anyone) treated them the way your mum treats you, how would you like them to respond?

Rubbish Oscarwilde. I have turned on the 'I don't care' button but it is not easy at all.

How to undo a lifetime in one easy step eh?

Because your relationship with your mother can be a lifetime of negative boundaries, and undoing that, when you haven't known any different is not easy.

Yes she is a grown woman, but there is a layer within all of us, which is our inner child.

When I do phone my mother she is on the line for at least an hour, often longer and I simply don't have 60-90 minutes to spare in an evening every night.

I have work, cooking, children's activities and all,the rest of family life to fit in

People always reply to these threads from their own personal perspective.
If they have a good relationship with, and are close to, their mothers, people can't always understand that other people don't have that

Well, I have a great relationship with my mother and I still can't imagine ringing her EVERY day. I don't think she would want that either-she'd never have time to do anything. It really isn't a reasonable expectation. And if she isn't nice to your children she certainly should not be put in sole charge of them.

Where you are BU is in guilt-tripping yourself so much. She's not reasonable (if she were, she'd come and see you, have more realistic expectations, or just discuss it differently), and you can't change her, so try to disengage. Speak plainly (but kindly). If she does stop talking to you, yay! Time off from the demands and manipulation.

Don't have time for proper sentances . . .

Expecting you to call everyday is too much.

Never, ever calling you is not fair.

Expecting your dog to be in a cage thing for most of the week is not fair either (can it not stay home with DH?)

You visit for a weekend every 4-6 weeks? Sounds fine considering how far it is. Must cost a bomb in petrol!

The whole seen and not heard thing in relation to your children would make any visit extremely stressful considering you don't raise your children that way. I have an aunt like that. I see her rarely because she lives miles and miles away but if she were closer I don't know how I would handle that.

The smacking

Having the put up with the tipsy ranting must be shite. Is that in front of the children?

I phone my parents every week to 10 days, depending, and they call me. Also see them about the same. So I think the amount of calls you make is perfectly fine.

(think some were a little harsh at the start of this thread)

Me thinks the summehols are getting to some posters.

It would have fared better in relationships I think.

If you have a parent who whines and huffs, were they always like that? Or is it not noticable when you are a child (and they are probably doing it to other adults)