To think it is a bit pointless to pussyfoot around it?

[TheQueenOfDiamonds]

My 3 year old daughter has been killing some frogs. She's never done it with me (We actually used to have various types of exotic frogs, so she knows they are animals, and she knows to be gentle with animals). S

She did it at her grandma's house. She squashes them and then waits for them to get back up. Her grandma told her that they won't get back up because when you squish them they go to sleep forever.

I'm not here to moan about her Grandma as a person, but to me, that seems a bit pointless. She knows what sleeping is, she knows sleeping doesn't harm you. So surely, telling her the frog has gone to sleep isn't going to discourage her from doing it?

She knows what hurting is, I asked DD what she did to the frogs and she told me she squished them, so I've told her not to because it hurts them.

Would it be better to suggest to GM that she says this if she does it again? The sleeping thing really baffled me.

I would talk to Grandma about it, it's not right to let a child go on killing things just to avoid unpleasantries.

That's terrible.
I advise watching the Lion King with her - explaining that squished things have died and will never come back and that squishing them hurts a lot.

I accidentally let DS watch the Lion King when he was 2 because I'd never seen it myself and didn't know about Musafa being killed by wildebeest stampede in it - but tbh, it's been quite useful, having to explain it all quite early on to DS. He understands what dead is - so when one of our guineapigs died, it wasn't too hard for him to deal with (although he was sad of course). He's 4.8 now.

I don't know how well it will translate up into losing a family member yet, but he seems to have a grasp of it - and we have NEVER used the "going to sleep" analogy as it's just a bit too risky that the child will then fear going to sleep, their brains rationalise stuff in a strange way.

I did make an enormous mistake the other day and had to backtrack wildly - we were watching a tv show about adult males still living at home and I light-heartedly told DS he'd be thrown out at 18 or 21 to fend for himself - of course, he didn't get the timeframe reference at all, and just started to panic that I was going to throw him out of the house and not let him back in the door that night, poor little soul - took me a good 10 minutes to talk him down from that one. :(

if darling grandmother is watching/condoning by not stopping a child hurting any creature, you and your family have some serious probs/issues ,and them some!!!! what next , pussycat gets microwaved? "OH DON"T DO THAT DARLING, PUSSY WONT LIKE THAT"????? hit it with a shovel instead (no, not you grandmother!!!)

Oh Dear poor froggy.
Telling her they were sleeping wasn't a good plan on Grandmas part at all.
At two Dd saw me step on a squashed toad on the road, (shudder) it must have really made an impression, she asked about it I told her, it didn't stay off the road and got squashed dead by a car. She has since been really good about staying out of the road. I think I traumatized her Now she's 7 she will bring it up once in a while in conversation.

I would suggest she tries squashing grandma - I think Grandma would soon put a stop to it then!

I don't know why it baffled you.

Look around any graveyard and you'll see headstones with "Fell asleep on XX date"....it's quite a common way for people to describe death, particularly to a child.

However, I agree that at 3yrs old she should be told she's causing these frogs to hurt/suffer and eventually die.

Definitely shouldn't pussyfoot around and make it very clear that it's unkind and she's to stop doing it.

But, my mother tells me that I use to sit at the bottom of the garden at age 2/3 hammering snails with a spoon. It honestly hasn't turned me into a killer or a sadist (I do hoover up spiders see my other thread), I just don't think children have the understanding or the compassion.

I also wonder if we give mixed messages to children, I mean we kill flies, lots of us kill spiders, we kill cows for a burger, so why then is it so cruel to squish a frog? Not saying that you should let her do it but aren't we slightly hypocritical?

I've told her not to because it hurts them.

How's that different from what her grandmother tells her about them sleeping?

Gran dind't know how to explain death to your child. Which is fair enough, really, she is v young (not Gran, your DC!). But going to sleep and not waking up is not an unreasonable way to refer to death if you don't want to be drawn into further debate.
She's 3, she doesn't have a condept of kindness or cruelty (yet) and this is a good time to teach her.

Perhaps as well, she might not have wanted to mention the word death to someone else's child (yes, I realise she's her grandaughter) as she might not have known if you'd be ok with it?

You know, I don't normally flame people on MN but this has absolutely disgusted me.

OP you should be ashamed of yourself and your child's grandmother.

You don't get to kill things for amusement. That is what your daughter is doing. So no, you don't fucking well pussy foot around it, you tell her 'No, that is wrong, you mustn't ever do that'. You make sure she understands because you are the parent.

And you make sure her grandmother understands this as well. Although quite frankly a grown woman who watches a toddler killing animals for fun and then coos 'Oh they're sleeping darling' obviously has some issues of her own.

Quite frankly, I would be much more concerned about the animals your daughter has killed than her precious feelings. Jesus.

By the way, children of that age are absolutely capable of understanding what death is, what causes it, and having some empathy. If they are taught.

Yeah sorry, I don't like being nasty, it's just the thoroughly casual tone - 'My daughter has been killing some frogs'. Jesus, just stop her!!!

Asking her how it would feel to be squashed and how it would be horrible if someone squished her.

Couldn't agree more, RevoltingPeasant

RevoltingPeasant Couldn't have put it better. Killing animals/insects knowingly is pretty evil. Most kids past the age of 2 know not to hurt living things and if they are doing it, need to be definitely told why they shouldn't be doing it!

What RevoltingPeasant said!

How an adult can stand back and watch a child kill an animal is beyond me!

I think it's your responsibility TBH.

she knows to be gentle with animals - no she doesn't, that's why she's killing frogs . If she really does know to be gentle with animals but is killing them anyway then you have got a problem on your hands.

Either properly land the message that she mustn't hurt animals or investigate why she's doing it when she knows it's naughty.

Oh, and you need to ask the GM to be a bit less Lord of the Flies about her games.

I didn't get the impression the grandmother sat back and let her do it.

I got the impression the grandmother told her not to do it because then the frogs 'go to sleep forever'.

But I might be wrong.

WorraLiberty I think you might be right there. However, at her age, she should know better and needs to be reminded.

I hate the fact our cats will try and kill frogs, birds, mice etc and will try and get them off them if we see it going on...my kids would never even think about such a thing regardless of the gran, YOU need to have a serious word with your daughter !