This is NOT Gina Ford-bashing, but...

[emeraldgirl1]

AIBU to be a bit put out by a friend (a Gina disciple) who has already declared (I am only 9w pg) that if I don't do Gina Ford method, I WILL have an unruly and impossible child?

She 'did' GF for her DC, now an angelic (if slightly lacking in independence) 5yo. She has always told me I 'must' do GF (even years before I was pg) but now that I actually am pg I feel slightly upset and bullied by her extremely forceful insistence that if I do't do what she did, I am already making a terrible mistake.

FWIW (and knowing little about GF) I have already formed a general impression that it's NOT a method for me but FFS I am only 9w and still just hoping all goes well. But (I am anxiety prone) I am already starting to worry that maybe she is right and that maybe (fingers crossed I get this far) I will rear an uncontrollable monster (like my beloved but terrifying nephews) if I don't become a Gina disciple!! I have always felt that children who are 'well behaved' are that way partly through nature and partly through just general good discipline (within reason), but now I am doubting myself and wondering if my friend is right.

FWIW again, this friend is fundamentally a good person but a bossy and difficult nightmare in too many ways to name... I know I shouldn't listen... especially as am barely a mother yet... but she was so forceful about this that I didn't know what to say or what to think. I just kind of laughed it off the way I have in the past and changed the subject. I think she guessed that I was ignoring her and didn't like it.

OP, like everyone else has already said, there isn't a method that works for everry child or every parent, and I don't thimk either you should take any books or methods as gospel, you obviously take what you agree with/works for you and leave the rest.
From what you have written in your posts, I think you might like What mothers do, by Naomi Stadlen here and Kiss me, by Carlos Gonzalez here
They don't give you instructions on how to deal with babies by following a particular routine, but more of a reassurance that what is important is to get to know your own baby and trust your instincts. Althoug I found most of what they say to be common sense, it is good to be reminded of these things and it may help you be more confident in your choices and even have some " backing up facts" for when people are being a pita insisting that their way is the only way.

i really must read gina ford. i'm longing for a laugh. isn't she the one who likes 'routines' and doesn't have any children of her own?

and while people are recommending books, these are old but if you can find 'the continuum concept' and 'breastfeeding and natural child-spacing' you'll be fine. and you'll turn into a hippy. but i think you might have the potential for that already...

emerald, I think the problem here is going to get worse, sorry! If you have a friend who is being this pressureful now about a particular style of parenting (when you are only 9 weeks pregnant, ffs) then I think you need a coping strategy or it wll just get worse and worse.

I think your options are - honest conversation telling her you will be happy to ask her for advice if you want it, but otherwise you'd rather be left to do things yourself. If she can't tell the difference between wanted or unwanted advice then she is going to be total hell as a Mum Friend. I would bring this up on its own rather than in response to something specific she says, so it doesn't sound defensive. Don't expect her to react brilliantly, and make sure you have another topic to move on to after you've made your request.

or be firmer and tell her you don't want her judging your parenting and can she leave it please. This might mean a temporary end of friendship but if she is sensible she will come back to it on new terms.

You can try and avoid her and not have any 'confrontation' but the success of that will be down to circumstance and how easy it is to see each other etc. And she will be hard to avoid when you have a new baby and are likely to be knackered and feeling vulnerable!

I think GF parents IME do seem to believe that if they didn't do GF stuff with their baby it would turn out to be an uncontrollable hooligan. Unfortunately, the books encourage that. Even the Baby Whisperer (GF lite) tells you in the opening chapters that if you don't follow her 'method' then you will get a badly behaved baby who will ruin your life. It is insidious stuff.

Just remember - these books are written TO MAKE MONEY. They HAVE to 'sell' the method coercively. They are actually written in a similar way to diet books. Same principle.

One final thing - when you have your new baby and want to leave the house! find a bf group or mum and baby group and find the mums who are similar to you in terms of attitude towards parenting. There will always be differences but you will be much happier with kindred spirits than mums who just want to tell you everything you are doing is Wrong.

The thing is, all babies need to sleep and eat, and they do that when they need to. After a while they build their own routine and it's up to us to enable that for them. Good parents are enablers, not controllers. If they are not sleeping it means there is something wrong. They are too cold, too hot, teething, or have a more serious problem that needs a doctor. Most mothers quickly work out what their babies need but if you steam in with a forced routine, that knowledge will never build or develop and you are blocking a very natural and important developmental process.

And some babies sleep too much and that can also mean that something is wrong, something that only a doctor can help with, certainly not Gina Ford.

the phrase you want is "let's agree to disagree". I use it a lot with one of my best friends who parents very differently from me. We will often have a discussion for a certain time and then when it starts to feel too personal, critical, dangerous ground, we back off. We often ask each other's advice about our kids' behaviour because sometimes if your ideas haven't worked, its useful to get a different view even if you end up not using it, but we are very aware of our limits in this regard and tread carefully as we both value the friendship. Also, as she is 5 years "ahead" of you, she may well feel she has a natural advantage but try to rebuff any "been there, done that" approaches with a "yes well, we'll figure it out" or something and change the subject. If you don't value the friend that highly and it becomes unbearable, just reduce contact, its easy to do with a baby, blame nap times, feeding etc. Oh and congrats on the pregnancy!

My SIL 'gina'd' her DD, much to the consternation of my/DB's side of the family, whose cultural ideas of child-rearing are very different. But it worked for her, and she went through some difficult (non-baby related) times when DD was little. DN is now 5 and a delightful child, although when she was younger if the routine had to be changed for whatever reason, she was very difficult.

OTOH I was reduced to tears trying to follow any kind of 'text book' advice with very prem DS, so as many others have said, you have to let the baby guide you.

I have not read the responses but I read GF when pregnant and thought 'awesome', this baby rearing lark must be a cinch. Well I tried it for two weeks and baby cried, I cried, rinse and repeat. Gave up and did our own thing. Horrible two weeks when I should have been carrying dd in a sling and generally enjoying her, not picking her up, putting her down and treating her like a tiny robot.

achillea, that's a really good description of why I don't like GF. Well put.

Loving the generalisations here. FWIW, I'm a creative and far, far from controlling and yet I loved the GF method because in spite of being creative I love routine (I need to schedule in and rigidly protect my creative work time otherwise that time will get encroached upon). When my firstborn arrived I'd not even held a newborn on my arms. I had no clue what to do and GF's book was a Godsend to me. Her nap schedules also helped me continue to work because I knew that if I encouraged my DD to nap between 12 and 2, for example, then I would be able to sit down and do some paid creative work (not housework).

However, I never push it onto new parents because I realise that my daughter conformed perfectly to GF's schedules because of her nature and also because her parenting advice suited my personality.

My DD is 4 now so her routines are now defined by school and family life. But if I had another child then I would try GF again. If that didn't work then I'd try something else. I'm more knowledgeable as a parent now so I would better trust my own instincts and experience this time round.

So, ignore your friend OP but be warned the advice will never stop - next it will be unwanted advice about weaning, then childcare/work, then school choices, then extra-curricular activities.... Prepare yourself for it and develop a thick skin.

Wow loads of posts from people who know nothing about Gina.Gina babies are heard and have their needs met as that is err the whole point of the contented baby routine.

Kind of a bit about the op,I personally don't know any mothers who say you must do anything.Ironically the only mothers I know who push anything are those that follow a style the other end of the spectrum ie the AP parents or those that push bf,blw etc etc ie constantly making ridiculous claims that babies who aren't reared their way will be damaged or exposed to a lifetime of ill health.The Gina mums generally are far too busy having a life to push anything.

Seriously op you don't seem to like your friend much anyway and,if that is the case just move on.

Prairieflower thanks for your post, I do appreciate that it can be odd to hear about a mum who says you 'must' do this or that but if you knew this particular person you wouldn't think it odd at all. I have if anything under-emphasised a lot of the language she used on this occasion and on past occasions because it starts to sound as if I am exaggerating. But the phrase, "do you want X (her son) to have a nice, well-behaved 'cousin' (we are not actually related but as have said before we are in some ways more like sisters) or do you want your child to be an out-of-control monster?' did actually pass her lips. She has also said she will 'stop talking to me' if I do not use GF method. Obviously I know this makes her sound (as she is) quite unstable, hence the fact I have been so thrown by the fact that I even bothered to take her remotely seriously this time.
I would very much like to move on from her prairieflower but as I have said, our families are very entwined, I have know her close to 20 years and she is more like a sister than a friend (albeit not a very good one). I distance myself whenever I can but 'moving on' is not an option.
I am not criticising GF mothers or the GF method, I am making a point that I don't think it is very fair or helpful to use this kind of language and criticism of my child-rearing methods 7 m before the child is even born. I have my own views on my friend's parenting style (nobody is perfect) but I would NEVER EVER have told her anything I thought as a) it is not my child b) I have no experience and do not think I know it all anyway and c) I would not want to undermine her confidence, which she has successfully done to me at 9w pregnant.

And also prarieflower I also take your point that GF mums may well be too busy to push anything, some other mums I know who have done GF have been very busy with work or other children and so the method has worked admirably for them with their v busy lives and I applaud them for getting on top of a hard schedule.
In the case of my friend, she does not work and never has, and has a hugely supportive family to help with babysitting and childcare etc, a part-time nanny and a 4 day a week cleaner. Maybe it is for this reason that she has too much time on her hands to push her methods on other people.

Either move on or poke up with it.As I said you'll get far more from the other end of the spectrum re pushing parenting ideas so you're going to be v miserable if you don't learn to let it wash over you.

Prairieflower you're probably right, as soon as I get someone from the other end of the spectrum telling me they won't speak to me if I don't adopt their own methods I'll consider it even!! :)

In the case of my friend, she does not work and never has, and has a hugely supportive family to help with babysitting and childcare etc, a part-time nanny and a 4 day a week cleaner
people like that, with ONE child, wanking on about what great parents they are make me want to puke.

just saying

The Gina Ford bit is actually a red herring, your friend should butt out and let you make your own decisions.

Melanie yep, I think that's kind of what I've realised I'm getting at, I'm not GF bashing (as I said in the OP) at all, in fact I don't actually think GF has anything at all to do with the reason why my friend behaves the way she does; I highly doubt there is a chapter in a GF book called 'Tell Your Friends To Do It This Way Or You Can't Be Friends With Them Anymore'. My friend's weirdness, bossiness and controlling behaviour isn't BECAUSE she did GF method, it is just the way she is. She found a method that worked for her, fabulous, but I am going to struggle to have a rel/ship with her if she tells me, every time my as-yet-unborn child does something naughty, that it is because I didn't follow GF.

Pvercooked how funny, your post just said exactly what I just did below! Absolutely the GF thing is a red herring, it could be ANY method and my friend would be telling me I am certifiable if I don't follow it to the letter. It just so happens that she chose GF.

With my first child the majority of 'parenting' books made me feel like a shit mum. Their methods didn't suit me or my baby and I felt more muddled and crap trying to follow them than when I'd followed my own common sense or instincts (or practical suggestions from friends /other mums). Consequently I didn't bother with any such books with my other two DCs. GF books come across IMHO like some horrible, nagging voice in the background that for some can just add to their insecurities and stress rather than building confidence. Great if it worked for your friend, but you need to do what suits you, which I'm sure you will. Ignore you friend and GF and have a happy, healthy pregnancy .

Forget moving on, OP, I would move out. Having children is the perfect opportunity to turn over a new leaf, make new friends and distance yourself from those you need to (like your overbearing mother).

I know it's extreme, but it sounds like the only way to untangle yourself for these people and remain on good terms, is to move house. You sound like a lovely person and would be welcome in any community.

of course your friend is being UR, and she only has one (if I read correctly)
TBH its easy to be a bit smug and perfect if you've had one who suited the first approach you tried, just wait till she has another DIFFERENT baby!

I settled on GF with DS, our original apporach didn't work for him, now expecting no 2 and have 2 thoughts on the matter:
how the frig would we do GF with 2
and
who knows if GF would even suit no 2 the way it suited no1 anyway? I might end up with a totally AP baby that loves being in a sling all day??? who knows!

she had ONE baby it suited, its great that she found somthing that suited her! however by pushing you towards GF she is actually pushing you AWAY from it IYKWIM and who knows? your baby might want to be a GF baby (you don't really get a choice, your prior ideas often go out the window ) - so don't let her put you off, just keep an open mind and perhaps read it for yourself rather than basing your impression of it on other people's interpretation of GF - then you have the tools to choose to use or not use it when you meet your baby

It has nothing to do with GF, there are AP parents out there who do exactly the same in terms of telling everyone else that they must NOT enforce routines. Both are UR, nothing to do with GF OR AP

Attachment parenting and Gina Ford are at extreme opposite ends of the spectrum. You can't do one and the other, they will never complement each other and that is why I am very sceptical of either. Children need to be enabled to reach their full potential with both freedom and boundaries and they very rarely reach it with just one of those things.

Ultimately they are both methods that are an extension of the parent's ideology (or to suit their needs at the time) and neither method is truly child-focussed.