To think someones personal tragedy shouldn't totally negate their sensitivity to others?

[waterwatereverywhere]

This is my first post so be gentle with me. I'll try to summarise.

A very close friend lost a baby at term 2 years ago. Awful, devastating and the worst thing that can happen to anyone. Everyone rallied around, were tremendously supportive and did the very best they could in terrible circumstances. Very bravely she has publicly raised awareness, fund raised and documented her personal journey. Shortly after her loss she and her DP had a luxury holiday - everyone was pleased that although it offered her no relief from her loss she had a chance to recuperate a little. 2 months later there followed several city breaks, designer shopping trips, concerts and theatre trips. Again, everyone was pleased she had a tiny release amid the pain all be they just distractions. Over the 2 years that followed, via a blog and social networking she has charted her fund raising, her efforts to TTC and her feelings. It has been both heartbreaking and heartwarming.

Then gradually over several months the posts about her journey have diminished leaving only posts about a frankly lavish lifestyle. During this time close friends have suffered personal losses, divorce, illness, family deaths and financial difficulties following redundancy. These have not been acknowledged by her, but the posts about meals in wait list restaurants and holidays have increased 10 fold.

AIBU to wonder if it is OK for her to be unable to show sensitivity to others due to the nature of her personal grief? Much as I care about her and am pleased she is finding some small happiness is it natural that she can't empathise with others their less significant losses? If she had not been through what she has I would think she was being completely insensitive and dare I say, flaunting material things to friends who are financial on their knees (not me, before anyone says I am jealous)

Or do i just sound like an insensitive bitch?

Was she good at comforting other people before though? It might be unrelated if she's never been good at showing that side.

Although agree with others than 2 years is a short period of time.

Everyone is different, waterwater. I hate to say it, but I have known people who have never got over the loss of a baby in this way. They aren't like that deliberately, it's just that other people's tragedies don't really impinge on their own lives, or compare with their own loss. IFSWIM. Of course, some people are able to draw support from their families and friends, or from others in the same situation, or organised groups, likes SANDS or the Compassionate Friends but sadly that doesn't work for everyone. She's dealing with it in her own way, as best she can.
I feel very lucky to have had DS2, and now think that if we hadn't lost DSI then we might not have had DS2 and he's the one we know and love. DS1 was our lovely boy but we never got to know him.

water speaking from the other side now, it's not ok but she most probably can't help it. And yes, it does change you forever. She won't always be that inward facing. Maybe you should speak to her but tbh if someone would have come up to me saying 'x is having a hard time right now' I would be thinking in my head 'oh my god, I am dying here and I am meant to take x out to dinner to make her feel better' maybe you could ask her how she is feeling and then mention that x isn't having such a great time and maybe you could all do with a night out or something. You may just have to accept that it's not that easy to be friends with her right now but it will get better. I couldn't speak to my pg friend or see a relatives newborn, it wasn't nice of me to stay away but I just couldn't do it, they put up with me and now our friendship is probably stronger than it's ever been.

I agree with Rhubarb in that the grief over loosing a baby is not comparable to someone being made redundant. I think you have to accept that this is most probably how she will see it. Perhaps she is afraid of offering emotional support to these friends as she will break down herself in doing so. The extravagance sounds like a way to numb that pain.

I get what you mean.
Tragedy doesn't just happen to wonderful, kind, sensitive people you know.

She sounds a self-absorbed twerp.

Some people when faced with personal tragedy, after a period of healing, have a sense of wanting to make a difference or support other people. it gives them more empathy. Some people it doesn't.

What happened to her is dreadful, awful and something you wouldn't wish on anyone. But, pain is pain whether it comes from stillbirth, life-threatening illness, divorce, depression even loneliness.
We all need to find room in our hearts to support each other whatever our pain.

But 2 years after losing a baby is NOTHING, it is still early days.

Th key is - was she caring ad empathetic before?

You are very right ohmyfoot sometimes you do acknowledge but you feel so bad yourself it's hard to care

Yes, you do.

The loss of her baby and her enjoyment of material things are completely separate. She's allowed to feel pain at one and joy at the other.

If you don't think she cares enough about others then distance yourself.

btw I may puke if I hear one more person refer to something that happens in life being a journey.

iloved I was always very sensitive and caring and I think that's why my friends stuck around. Grief makes you self absorbed because it takes all your energy to get through the day

Why don't you speak to your friend and tell her how you feel?

limitedperiod - I haven't once suggested she shouldn't be experiencing joy, i have even said how pleased we all are that she has had some small relief from her loss - i don't actually even think she IS experiencing joy. I think she is trying to find something to fill a gap.
What I was asking was is it OK (and how long is it OK) for her to reference her personal wealth and expenditure in response to someone elses difficulties. And she has described this last 2 years as a journey. I suppose it has been for her. How should she refer to it?

Starry - I value her friendship too much to stick my oar in - hence posting here to get other views. I'm glad I did as those that have been through what she has have made it easier to understand. I suppose 2 years seems like a long time to those on the outside, not suggesting she should be 'over it' at all just that maybe I thought she would be past the deep all consuming pain. She is a very difficult person to read - even to close friends she hides her true feelings with a very positive face.

Maybe she has been hurting so, so, so much that she cant bear any more of life's pain , so literally cannot deal with any more tragedy wether its her own or someone elses. Maybe she feels she only wants to be part of the positive side of life.

I have been through some awful things in the past 5 years and one of the effects it has had on me as I have coped by putting myself in a bubble where I just can no longer want deal or dwell with sad things in life.

I know it sounds horrible and selfish, but it is like my capacity for dealing with suffering was at its limit and I needed to escape for the time being.

It is possible your friend might feel the same. maybe she just wants to escape out of the dark for a bit.

She can do what she likes for as long as she like water. It's up to you whether you want to confront it or simply put up with it.

I'd suggest putting up with it btw.

Why does it matter to you whether her joy is valid or whether she's filling a 'gap'?

stop reading her blog and block her on social networking sites.

What was she like before she lost her baby? Was she empathetic and considerate beforehand and the very sad tragedy has transformed her, or was she a less empathetic person?

Grief and circumstances obviously effect people differently, I wouldn't expect that just because somebody has suffered a personal tragedy, that they would forever be empathetic and understanding towards others.

Maybe she is just recovering a little and wants to concentrate on the future, you do sound a tiny bit like she is in debt to all the well wishers and should repay them in sympathy .

If she is rude then tell her, if she is consistently boastful and unpleasant then stop being friends with her.

I don't really get the whole "worst thing that can happen to you" thing either, surely that is totally subjective, there will always be some poor soul worse off.

She has always been a little inclined to boasting, always just accepted thats who she is. She has been a good friend for a long time, although we had grown apart until she lost the baby and then she came to me for support.

Yes limitedperiod she can absolutely do as she likes. She can say what she likes, do what she likes and blog and post on fb what she likes.

Agree with everything rhubarb says, the thung is the grief of loosing a child is all consuming. I've found the guilt that I didn't realise what was happening haunts me every day. I know it wasn't my fault, there is no way I could have known what would happen but it doesn't stop me feeling that my body failed my baby, and that I failed him because of this.

I hope that I still show compassion to others, regardless of what their problems are but it can be difficult. It will take a long time to recover, if at all. Maybe she's just trying in what ever way she can to to get through the days. If Shea having truble ttc it will probably be making her feel worse

Losing a child is all consuming. I doubt very much the lavish lifestyle is compensating but she is making an attempt to build a life for herself which doesn't include the child she was supposed to have. Maybe she has built too much of a wall but it's understandable and she will be feeling vulnerable all over again when something 'sad' happens.

MrsJohnMurphy, I think you can say objectively that loosing a baby is worse than being made redundant. I have never lost a baby but my DP was made redundant, it was a depressing anxiety ridden time but loosing your baby is not in the same league.

Btw, OP, I hope you don't feel you've been told off. You sound like someone working to understand a friend. That makes you a good one.

You are jealous.

Really good advice on this thread. I went through personal tragedy when I was younger and also only wanted to partake in shallow, fun things as I couldn't bear to talk about anything serious, sad, stressful, etc. I was suffering from severe anxiety brought on by PTSD - I had to hold on to things like rails and avoided escalators etc as I felt so panicked all the time. I had to live such a limited life and spent most of the time either struggling to do the basics, going out drinking an partying and being promiscuous, or crying. For those few years i could not have been a good friend to someone who needed a listener, I could not bear it. I lost a lot of friends during that time.

Be there for your friend and don't question her behaviour too much. She will get through the other side. Make her subtly aware every so often (and not by making judge comments re her lifestyle) that you understand she is still in grief.

I must be completely suspicious and mis reading the entire thing - because I took the fundraising and lavish life style to be a hidden accusation she was spending fundraising money on a massive jolly.

Have to admit I read it like that too, Jumping.

I had two stillbirths and it leaves massive scars forever and affects everything. After my second loss I really found it hard to relate to people who hadn't suffered in life and what other people moaned about seemed trivial. Also people were so tactless texting me about others pregnancies just days after our loss. You feel so isolated and alone. However in time I can manage trivial banter etc. Although often I can't fully relate. To me my loss has made me more empathetic in all areas of other people's suffering whether it is a loss or divorce or whatever. But it took me a normal pregnancy to get me out of that awful horrible raw pain which even now hits every now and then. I don't think you friend IBU because as you say other people's events often just don't seem as bad compared with the horrific loss of your own child. Two years is no time really either especially if she has wanted another child and it hasn't happened that really hurts.