To think that no one will ever vote conservative again

[rogersmellyonthetelly]

At least in anyone in living memory of the current government and their immoral targeting of the most vulnerable members of society.
I voted conservative at the last election to my eternal shame, I won't make the same mistake twice.

What Twelveleggedwalk said at 12.27. What an intelligent balanced post. Will everyone arguing read it. I don't know what the solution is though. Clegg has been a disgrace and it's such a pity and a lost opportunity.

I was just about to write something very similar to Clytamnaestra.

I think Labour were an utter shambles in 2010 - there was simply no way I could have voted for them. The very IDEA of GB becoming Prime Minister again was enough to make me think of emigrating (and I very much like it here).

I agreed with what the Tories were saying about cuts. You only have to look at Greece and Spain to see the risks of an over-indebted economy and I think the Tories deserve (some) credit for saving us from the worst of that.

What I hoped for was a bit of competent administration after the hash that Labour made of everything. If nothing else, you ought to be able to expect this from the Tories - they're normally the most effective in local government for example.

But I am hugely disappointed. There's no leadership from Cameron - he's ducked the Lords reform issue, kicked the urgent decisions needed on airport capacity in the SE into the long grass, and they've reversed practically everything they said they'd do in the Budget. I supported the idea of cuts, but I'm dismayed that they're targetting families and the vulnerable and not looking at less damaging cuts like pensioner bus passes. I know full well that this is because pensioners vote Tory and those with young families are less likely to. I hoped to see some evidence-based policy but instead they're making tactical decisions for their own benefit and setting up dishonest strawmen for DM readers to attack. And this is what has made me so disillusioned.

I like Ed Miliband and I think he's said some interesting things. But he could never be PM.

So - like a lot of others - I was happy to vote Tory in 2010, but I won't next time. And nor will I vote Labour or Lib Dem. And I find that frustrating because I've always voted.

I think we're going to have a really low turnout in 2015. And those 'in power' are going to find it harder and harder to implement their manifestos because the public just won't trust them.

flatpackhamster excatly it seems these days the only people whomcan have as many children as they like are those on benafits and those who are very very rich

The feckless dont pay any tax and thr irch aviod it its just muggings and few others in the middle who are left to pay for it all and i for one am sick of it

And oh dont get me started on labours love in with brussles

We are a sovirgin state and we have no right to deport people who have commited crimes with in our own shores or mesure our applesin the mesurement that we want outragous labour sighned the uk over with out the consent of its people

Britta, I don't really want to get into a benefits row with you, but I do know families who choose not to work because if they did their childcare and transport costs would add up to more than they would earn above what they get on benefits.

It's just the way it is, and your situation, and those of the families I am thinking of do not represent everyone. But you are very naieve if you believe that under the last government there were not many families who were better off on benefits, or at least at the same level as they would be if they were working. Thankfully, things are changing.

TheQueenOfDiamonds you need to get to a holland and baretts and get thee some st jhons wart quick style

That's a bit harsh QueenofDiamonds!

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos under labour whole familes managed to dodge working in a edfort to appease the working class or not working class as the case may be labour chucked benafits at theis group in order to win support

"as you see your parents age, your friends' financial circumstances change, your family affected by health concerns..."

Interestingly, it's the health concerns that turned me off socialism initially. I got cancer and would have died if my care had been left the the NHS (just after Labour hosed money at it, funnily enough!). Even now, I am unable to get the follow-up I need. I know exactly how bad state-run healthcare can be, which is why I advocate the European social insurance style systems. I feel genuinely dismayed when I see people being so absurdly grateful for the NHS "because without it we'd be like the US and couldn't have any treatment". I think that's pretty much left-wing hysteria and brainwashing speaking and I feel rather sorry for them because they are obviously a bit daft It's just a shame that we are not more sophisticated when it comes to healthcare models and realised just what a cr*p deal most of us get.

And also let the unuions get way out of line hence tube strikes every f ing pther day and them enjoying a higher starting pay than a policeman

I agree Beagle. I used to be a huge supporter of the NHS, until my family really needed it.

I'd rather pay less tax pay our own healthcare insurance. Seeing as how we were forced to pay private anyway, and we woudo have had a better outcome if we hadnt believed in the NHS in the first place.

Beagle, why would a private health care system have secured you better treatment? Genuinely interested. I can see how it can cut waiting times but if the problem is misdiagnosis then it's not going to help, if it's due to costs of drugs etc then your care will only be as good as the insurance policy you can afford, neither of which strike me as better than the free at point of use model.

Waiting times are a huge problem though, and it cannot be underestimated.

People like TheQueenOfDiamonds do make me feel better about voting Tory though :)

"Beagle, why would a private health care system have secured you better treatment? Genuinely interested. I can see how it can cut waiting times but if the problem is misdiagnosis then it's not going to help."

Because I saw a consultant privately and demanded a scan that had been refused by the NHS. As a paying customer, he said yes... and bingo, tumour. I had been bounced back and forth by the NHS (GP's and consultants) - accused of pilfering scarce resources, hypochondria etc - for 6 months by that point. Because having to cope in a shared ward after abdominal surgey is hideous and I wanted my own room and loo.

I agree with you about the drug access being only as good as the insurance policy BUT at least you know in advance. With NI, you have no contract, you are just mugged every month for an unclear/unspecified sum and then you may or may not get treatment. It's appalling.

Incidentally, the European systems are all free at the point of use too. The government gets involved in payment, not provision. Makes sense to me.

I think there will be even fewer voters at the next election. There are many people who have lost all faith in politicians and total apathy is going to set in.

I don't know what I'm going to do. I voted LibDem last time, because I thought they had some good policies. I can't see myself voting for them again.

I vowed never to vote Labour after the Iraq invasion. I will never vote Conservative because of the way their spending cuts have targeted the most vulnerable in society.

What does that leave? I guess I will either vote for an Independent or Green or spoil my paper.

I completely agree with porcamiseria though: I think people will continue to vite conservative as there are HUGE amount of people that dont want taxpayers money spent on the poor

I think if the austerity cuts fail to create jobs or economic growth by the next election they will be out for sure.

I think *QueenofDiamonds" has articulately made a salient point.

WRT the NHS, I was sayiong on another thread in politics that in Nottingham there is an "independent sector treatment centre" run by a private company but used as part of the NHS.

In the past few years I've had several operations on my hips. Halfway through the lead up to the operations, all outpatient care for orthopedics (and loads of other stuff) was moved to there, so to a hospital run privately by a private company who are paid to do so by the local authority and free at point of use under the NHS umbrella. I've also had a variety of colposcopies, LEEPs and so on there (I was in and out so much at one point I reckon I should have had my own parking space!)

It's SO much better. Gorgeous building, nice waiting rooms and quick turnaround times - previously if I'd had a consultant appointment at 9:30 in the orthopedic and fracture clinic in the main NHS run building I would have been there all day. Now I'm straight through X-Ray, into a nice treatment room and with the consultant by 9:45 latest (unless the consultant is late. Consultant timekeeping appears to be beyond any reasonable person's control). I've had brilliant service from everyone in there, from reception to nurses. It's spotlessly clean.

Still had the actual operations in the main NHS building, and the difference is noticable. Things like the EKG(? - heart rate thing) and bloods took three times the waiting time to get it done than they did at the treatment centre. Results came through quicker.

I think there is a place for privately run aspects of the NHS as long as it remains free and non-discriminatory at point of use and I wish that we could have a sensible discussion about NHS reforms without both sides waving pitchforks at each other and screeching.

Thank you for explaining Beagle, I hope you're doing well now.

Incidentally the NHS saved the life of at least my DTs, if not me also, last year, so I'm obviously looking at it from another perspective.

I will never in my life vote Tory. I don't vote for who represents me - I have a privileged life and job security. I vote for the folk down there who don't.
I could never vote for a party who so vehemently hate the working classes

No I think they'll win. I've really had my eyes opened these past couple of years to just exactly how much people like us are despised and that by scapegoating us and hounding us, the Tories can win lots of public support. My country in general despises me and they are cheering on the destruction of support for disabled people.

90% of people support the benefit "reforms".

I think people will have to vote conservative again because Ed Miliband is not a convincing leader of the Labour party (they really need to sort that out!) and Clegg just seems so weak too compared to Cameron.

Harsh but true. They haven't got a clue.

Clytaemnestra Well i'm glad i make you feel better about supporting disabled children having the food taken from their mouths.

Also tbh so are the Labour Party (cheering on our doom), so there's no one for us to vote for at all. I voted LibDem last time (ouch) but this time I guess I can only spoil my ballot.