Cycling on pavements

[mrseffington]

AIBU?
I know that you're not supposed to cycle on pavements. DD (8) is a timid thing at best but desperate to spread her wings somewhat. She's a good competent cyclist but I don't think ready to go on roads without me.

We live in a crescent, lots of bungalows, elderly residents, the crescent goes nowhere - if I was to sit in my sitting room and watch for a whole day I might see 2 people walk by.

DD has been begging me to cycle on her own - she doesn't want my supervision, she wants to cycle 'round the block' ENDLESSLY. I've told her yes, on the pavements. She's been happily doing this for a couple of weeks and is thrilled with herself.

Tonight she had a friend over for a sleepover and friend's mum brought a bike. The two of them spent over an hour having a ball going round and round and round and round. They are not loud, they are not fast, no signs of hell raising at all. At one point went out to check on them and they were in the road (cars, mostly driven by our elderly neighbours come hurtling round the crescent, usually in the middle of the road) and I gave them hell....

Next thing, DD is in here in tears saying that a woman took hold of her handlbars and directed her into the road saying 'THIS is where we cycle'. I went out and found said woman who was still huffing and puffing about the young generation thinking they rule the world and are so RUDE and entitled... My DD is all sorts of things, no rose tinted specs here but there is NO WAY on earth she would be rude to a total stranger, particularly an adult. I had a word with her, nicely, and said that I had given permission for her to ride on the pavement as I don't trust drivers on teh road and she is just gaining confidence on her bike. She smiled and nodded and said 'of course, she looks older than she is, sorry about that...' 30 mins later community police woman is at the door - she's doing what she's been asked to do but basically leaves saying it's fine that DD is on pavements.

Was I then being unreasonable to being slightly fishwifey on my visiit to our neighbour whilst informing her that my daughter was going to continue to cycle on our pavements/

If it were me and all was as your daughter described YANBU. I would have been more than fishwifey about someone grabbing my Ds's handlebars and telling him to cycle on the road. (DS (8) is also still gaining confidence). If someone has a problem with your child's behavior they should come speak to you then community police if you refuse to address the situation.

Obviously we know you shouldn't cycle on the path but I think in the case of small children as long as they are being courteous and careful, common sense demands an exception.

I don't think YWBU, but I have sympathy for older people who have been frightened by teens hurtling by on bikes.
It's a tricky one - the roads certainly aren't safe for a child of that age to cycle. One of my mum's friends lost her 17yo grandson earlier this year in a cycling accident. Most people I know who cycle regularly have been knocked off by cars at least once. A male friend who road races has had drivers slam their brakes on on purpose so that he crashes into the back of their car.

We've just had a thread about this and I seem to be in the minority for agreeing with you.

I think we should be encouraging DCs to get more exercise and more time out doors.

I can't see any problem with primary aged DCs riding politely on quiet pavements.

I've met teens who'll hop their BMXs politely down to let you past.

Sadly a few rude teens and some dim adults, who forget what it was like to be children spoil things.

I don't think anyone should be putting your child in the road.

Are you saying that the silly cow called the PCSO?

What a bitch.

I would say that I don't think cycling on the pavement is safe. Not so much for pedestrians at risk from an 8-year-old, but because you get cars reversing out and the child might not notice and get run over.

It's pretty shit all round tbh. Best bet is to try and take them out with you as much as possible.

StunningCan'tsaythatword. yes she put my dd in the road and yes she called the pcso (who I know socially)

I'm sure that there's a 'oh youth of today' and a pile of horrible teens who will make older people's lives a misery. Actually where we live we seem to be incredibly lucky - all the teens, the minute an adult comes anywhere near start doffing their caps and muttering in kevin and perry stylee - it's sweet! The woman concerned was definitely not elderly - maybe in her mid 50's.

DD now doesn't want to cycle out there. Think I shall get my old sit up and beg bike out tomorrow and cycle round majestically followed by Dd and friend lol

Oh and I agree re cars reversing out and I've warned her about this but I figure the 'damage' of that would potentially be less devastating than being out on the road facing an oncoming car. I swear, the number of times I have driven out of the crescent to be met by an oncoming rover with some old boy roaring away in first gear and trying to find his barley sugars is terrifying...

I think that the issue is whether the corners are 'blind' and the speed that they are going at.

I would have agreed with you at one time, but now my mum is in her 80's and a fall would disable her to the extent that she would be housebound until she died, my opinion is shifting.

People don't seem to accept that old people are as vulnerable as small children and to their relatives, just as important.

A bit six of one and half a dozen of the other really.

Some people are sticklers for the law. And the law says you ride in the road not on pavements. One would hope common sense would prevail though.

On the other hand, elderly people lose their hearing/perfect vision, a hedge preventing them seeing what/who is on the pavement and they could be bowled over, with tragic and fatal consequences.

That's worst case scenario.

On the other hand, as sensible as your daughter is, things do happen. My cousin was so enthralled by watching the spokes going round and round on his new bike, he managed to crash into a skip at some speed, and did himself quite a damage. The bike was a write off.

But all things considered, I don't think it was out of order for the lady to call the PCSO, on the grounds they have access to information, such as road safety clubs and schemes that run in the holidays. Most areas run these, and they are free.

?The DfT view, from discussions with Home Office, is that the law applies to all but the police can show discretion to younger children cycling on the pavement for whom cycling on the road would not be a safe option.?

www.bikehub.co.uk/featured-articles/cycling-and-the-law/

So YANBU as the DfT specifically say that although it is not "legal" they do allow discretion for younger children for safety reasons!

I would be raging that a neighbour had put my child on the road!!!

Fwiw I was brought up in Scotland, where it is legal to ride bicycles on the pavement at any age - and I don't remember lots of old people being knocked over and injured, because we all did cycle safety at school and knew how to ride sensibly and with consideration for others.

Oh and also......

The age of criminal responsibility is 10 so, technically, only children below this age can cycle on footways without fear of redress.

While adults are not allowed to cycle on ?footways? (see definition above), children up to the age of 16 cannot be prosecuted for doing so, see text above for clarification.

Same website as above.

How horrid that the old lady told your child to cycle on the road!

Could you ask your DD to get of her bike when she sees someone walking on the pavement? If it is only a couple of people a day it wont stop her fun.

A male friend who road races has had drivers slam their brakes on on purpose so that he crashes into the back of their car Surly cyclists should still keep stopping distance so it was actually the bike riders fault?

Do you know what scares me are those mobility scooters that the elderly-disabled use. A handful of users ride them irresponsibly (too slow in road & too fast on pavement). Those things are HEAVY and could do a huge amount of damage even at only moderate speeds. I think common sense rules should apply, whatever wheeled vehicles people are using. Bit of give and take.

honeytea what tends to happen is that drivers overtake you, then slam on their brakes. It's very common, as is the 'punishment pass', where a driver deliberately passes so close that you are forced into the kerb. It's dangerous driving but still we focus on what cyclists are 'doing wrong'.

Many drivers don't realise that you can't do an emergency stop safely on a bike.

To be honest as a cyclist I think you just can't win. Where I live the pavements are combined pedestrian/cycle. Even though myself and dc are very considerate, slow right down near pedestrians, never just whizz past, we still get the occasional negative comment about riding on pavements.

Pavements are for PEDESTRIANS. Those perambulating on two legs, not on wheels.

My disabled six year old has been knocked flying by someone cycling on a pavement. I have told kids in my parents' cul de sac to get off the damn pavement and cycle in the road or on a cycle path, as they have whizzed dangerously close to us on the pavement.

I think cycling on the pavement is OK for kids, but at a walking, i.e. boring pace.

Everyone else should get in the road. That means the so-called considerate adults going at a snail's pace. Get in the road.

For adults, if you think the road is too dangerous, WALK. Don't take it out on the pedestrians. Yes, I cycle, no I never use a pavement.

Is it a housing estate/cul de sac sort of place OP? Seems to be par for the course - too many people with nothing better to do with their time than stare out of the window tutting and criticising others.

I live in such a development - its plagued, absolutely plagued by souped up Subaru Imprezas being driven up and down at high speeds, by men in their forties! Yet I just know its the sort of place where, if any children did venture out to cycle on the pavements, they'd get a visit from the police.

Its so important for children to play outdoors and move around and set good habits for later life, I don't think anything should be done to discourage them. As long as they are behaving of course.

You don't want them to grow up to be one of those people miserably staring out of their window, aggrieved at seeing people outdoors, actually enjoying themselves!

YANBU. The neighbour was out of order.

Where there's a cycle path or lane, that's what should be used. Where there's a dual use path pedestrians and cyclists should both be considerate - round here by and large they are (and dog walkers are 99% wonderful at controlling their dogs ) but you do get the odd gormless family straddled all over the cycle path part with small kids every which way.

I walk, cycle and drive, and reckon that for vhildren and family day-out pootle cyclists, pedestrians and bikes can coexist much better than cars and bikes.

It's a tricky one because of her age. Of course you don't feel safe with her in the road, but at any speed at all it's likely she's making it unsafe for pedestrians on the pavement. Plus, when she's with a friend if they're cycling side by side it probably doesn't leave much room for pedestrians or for them to get out of the way of pedestrians.

There was a thread on here a while ago where a poster's son (about 12 I think?) had knocked over a little boy who ran out of his driveway onto the footpath (not the road). The little boy lost consciousness and had to go to hospital, so you can see these things can be quite serious...

But then, your daughter is only 8. Gah. I don't know what the right call is on this one tbh.

A larger child (or adult) could knock over a small child in that sort of situation if they were just running. One of those mobility scooters would have done worse.

However, if the OP has told her DD to treat driveways as if they were sideroads - for her own safety in case of exiting cars - then this sort of incident wouldn't occur anyway.

Whilst it is the law that you have to ride on the road not the pavement - its a fixed penalty offence and there is no mechanism for police to issue a fixed penalty against a minor so in effect its totally unenforceable.

Our local police said their advice to parents says its for each copper to use their judgement but the rule of thumb is that its its patently safer for a child to be cycling on the pavement than on the road that is the correct approach and that a child should not be on the road without having passed the cycling proficiency test (I know, I know its called something different now).

I suspect there have been more children killed or seriously injured cycling on the roads than there have been old ladies killed or seriously injured by children cycling on the pavement. But I have no proof...

Difficult, YABU and YANBU

Think how it feels to loose your hearing and vision, and so not spot bikes until they are right by you? Even a child going quite slowly would be frightening. A fall for an elderly person can be basically game over

Also, if you DD is unsteady on her bike she is more likely to knock into someone.

But then again, if the estate has idiot car drivers razzing around then obvs you don't want her on the road.

Would be better if she could push the bike along a pavement to a nearby school or something and then ride around in the play grounds there? That's what we used to do as there was a near byjunior school with a big car park (empty in the evenings and weekend)

YANBU, (that old lady sounds like a right cow), as long as your dd treats the other pavement users with consideration, especially the elderly who can feel unsteady on their feet.
Although the only time I was ever knocked off a bike was when I was using the pavement and a van shot out of a concealed entrance, the driver would have seen me had I been using the road....
so, a tricky one.

How dare she grab your DD's handlebars and direct her onto the road! I would have felt like slapping the bitch woman. If it's safer for your daughter to ride on the pavement, then she should, regardless of what interfering busybodies think