Cycling on pavements

[mrseffington]

AIBU?
I know that you're not supposed to cycle on pavements. DD (8) is a timid thing at best but desperate to spread her wings somewhat. She's a good competent cyclist but I don't think ready to go on roads without me.

We live in a crescent, lots of bungalows, elderly residents, the crescent goes nowhere - if I was to sit in my sitting room and watch for a whole day I might see 2 people walk by.

DD has been begging me to cycle on her own - she doesn't want my supervision, she wants to cycle 'round the block' ENDLESSLY. I've told her yes, on the pavements. She's been happily doing this for a couple of weeks and is thrilled with herself.

Tonight she had a friend over for a sleepover and friend's mum brought a bike. The two of them spent over an hour having a ball going round and round and round and round. They are not loud, they are not fast, no signs of hell raising at all. At one point went out to check on them and they were in the road (cars, mostly driven by our elderly neighbours come hurtling round the crescent, usually in the middle of the road) and I gave them hell....

Next thing, DD is in here in tears saying that a woman took hold of her handlbars and directed her into the road saying 'THIS is where we cycle'. I went out and found said woman who was still huffing and puffing about the young generation thinking they rule the world and are so RUDE and entitled... My DD is all sorts of things, no rose tinted specs here but there is NO WAY on earth she would be rude to a total stranger, particularly an adult. I had a word with her, nicely, and said that I had given permission for her to ride on the pavement as I don't trust drivers on teh road and she is just gaining confidence on her bike. She smiled and nodded and said 'of course, she looks older than she is, sorry about that...' 30 mins later community police woman is at the door - she's doing what she's been asked to do but basically leaves saying it's fine that DD is on pavements.

Was I then being unreasonable to being slightly fishwifey on my visiit to our neighbour whilst informing her that my daughter was going to continue to cycle on our pavements/

I live in Couthy's LA. Our village is 5 miles from the local secondary, along dual carriage way, and unpavemented single track lanes.
If you live on one side of the street, you get a bus pass, on the other, you pay!
You are basically calling Couthy a liar. Please don't!

I can't use my free bus pass before 9am. I have to catch the 8.15 bus.

No, we don't get an Oyster card equivalent here, and children's bus fares in the morning aren't even at a reduced rate, you pay 'peak time child fare' which is the sane as an adult fare. So £1.10 for a child single, with two DC's and myself to pay for it soon mounts up!

There isn't an LA bus. If my DS2 attended an SEN school, he would get a taxi, but not to MS. It's not the closest school, but it's the one we were allocated. They only pay for bus passes for the CHILDREN, and only if it is OVER 3 miles away for junior age DC.

Because my DS2 CAN walk, albeit not far, he doesn't qualify for the mobility part of DLA. Without the mobility component of DLA, I can't get transport costs paid.

That's how it is in mine & Saggy's LA.

Even the local MP has helped me try to appeal for free transport and lost in the past!

In the Op you ndescribe your child as a good competent cyclist, but later say she has to ride on the pavement as she is just learning.Which is it?

I do think you're in the wrong op. rules are there for a reason and it's not up to each of us to interpret them according to our own wishes. You might feel your dd and her friend are being slow and sensible, but someone else might think their 12 year old is ok riding on pavements... It becomes a very grey area.

Many elderly, or young or in other ways vulnerable people could be really scared or taken by surprise by someone cycling on the pavement. Its not simply a case of whether they get hurt physically- its also about their peace of mind. If they are put off going out because of bikes on pavements, how would you know? You might be thinking your kids aren't doing any harm, but the fact is you wouldn't know. You need to consider other peoples needs not just your own

i think that if your daughter is not competent enough to go on the roads then there is a risk of her not being competent enough to cycle on her own at all.
you should be out with her. the woman who spoke to your daughter was probablly worried about her own safety when she saw 2 children going round and round outside her house. if she was unstable on her feet they could easily cause an accident.

Exactly yeahbaby

And I also think that it's very arrogant to assume that if people dont complain then there isn't a problem. There may be some elderly residents who actually feel reluctant to pop out to the shop because of this sort of thing. Or they may be so worried about confrontation that they just don't complain. This woman actually spoke up, but you don't know how many others might share her views but feel scared to say so.

..and you know that the 2 girls hurtling towards some frail elderly lady are going to stop- she doesn't!!

My DD can walk, albeit not far, and we receive higher rate DLA. Sounds to me that, if you have applied, you may have been unfairly turned down. Have you considered reapplying? I'd be happy to help you with the form if you want. I am DLA Tribunal Queen.

WOW YABsoU.

It may be unenforcable, but your DD shouldn't have been riding on the pavement. I think your neighbour handled the situation really well.

Take you daughter somewhere she can ride safely and supervised. the unsupervised thing is just stupid. What if she falls off and hurts herself? Your DD is too young to be deciding whether she should be supervised or not.

YOU have no idea whether your duaghter came over rude or not YOU were not there

LunarRose as I said upthread - our local police advise that young children (pre- cycling proficiency age) ride on the pavement rather than the road. Perfectly possible for a child under ten to ride on thh pavement and pedestrians to be safe.

What if she falls off and hurts herself?
In her own street... with a friend with her... worst case the friend runs home for mum. More likely she picks herself up, dusts herself down and makes a lot less fuss than if a parent was there and proudly shows off her bruises the next day. (IME!)

Just keep them wrapped in cotton wool till the day they suddenly need to get to secondary school if you don't think a pair of 8 year olds can deal with a scrape or two without mummy helicoptering.

Highway code

You MUST NOT cycle on a pavement. (Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & R(S)A 1984, sect 129)

Whether the police decide say they can't prosecute, it is quite simple she should not have been there.

Incidentally there had have been an accident involving your daughter on the pavement, it is possible to make a recovery of costs against you! I know because I worked in insurance and made a recovery against the parent of a child riding unsupervised on a pavement for the damage to my policyholders car. an no that isn't dependent on whether the police make a prosecution.

Again take you daughter somewhere she can ride safely and supervised.

If a child riding in the road damaged a car, the same would apply. Being on the pavement is probably irrelevant to that point which is make sure your household insurance covers this sort of eventuality.

The police are, fortunately, aware of when the law is a bit of an ass, as that statement in the Highway Code clearly is in relation to children. Here's their guidelines, hence the PCOs sensible response to the OP:

'On 1st August 1999, new legislation came into force to allow a fixed penalty notice to be served on anyone who is guilty of cycling on a footway. However the Home Office issued guidance on how the new legislation should be applied, indicating that they should only be used where a cyclist is riding in a manner that may endanger others. At the time Home Office Minister Paul Boateng issued a letter stating that:

"The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."

Almost identical advice has since been issued by the Home Office with regards the use of fixed penalty notices by 'Community Support Officers' and wardens.

"CSOs and accredited persons will be accountable in the same way as police officers. They will be under the direction and control of the chief officer, supervised on a daily basis by the local community beat officer and will be subject to the same police complaints system. The Government have included provision in the Anti Social Behaviour Bill to enable CSOs and accredited persons to stop those cycling irresponsibly on the pavement in order to issue a fixed penalty notice.

I should stress that the issue is about inconsiderate cycling on the pavements. The new provisions are not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other road users when doing so. Chief officers recognise that the fixed penalty needs to be used with a considerable degree of discretion and it cannot be issued to anyone under the age of 16. (Letter to Mr H. Peel from John Crozier of The Home Office, reference T5080/4, 23 February 2004)

'

I do feel sorry for your daughter being told off but if the crescent is as quiet as you say then surely the road is safe? I used to cycle in the roads at that age on our estate.

We now live on a quiet road with kids opposite, aged about 10 and they constantly cycle on the pavement and it is a real nuisance because they always turn around on peoples driveways, one of them dented another neighbours car door with his handlebars doing so.

it is quite simple she should not have been there.

It is far from simple.

www.standard.co.uk/news/met-backs-children-cycling-on-pavements-after-mayors-plea-in-safety-row-6490823.html

Incidentally there had have been an accident involving your daughter on the pavement, it is possible to make a recovery of costs against you!

That would depend on the circumstances.

YANBU at all.

Not a cyclist myself, but I can totally see why many choose to cycle on the pavement. Car drivers can be bloody inconsiderate and dangerous.

Honestly! Some people seriously need to get a grip! Children always cycle on pavements fgs. It's hardly the crime of the century. I for one don't give a flying fig what anyone thinks, if my child is safer on the pavement and has been taught to cycle with due care and respect for others, then they'll be cycling on the pavement! So there.

Indeed it would depend on circumstances, but an unsupervised minor doing something that is against the law would have been a no-brainer.

Incidentally the article does not back children on bicycles making a nuisance of themselves, which as she was UNSUPERVISED, the OP has no idea of.

Utimately in the case where there had been a complaint against the behaviour of my 8 year old child (who was doing something illegal in the first place), I would be supervising from there on in.

Not behaving churlishly to the adult who made the complaint.

IN fact it was an 8 year old child doing a potentially dangerous activity. I would have been supervising in the first place .

YANBU - a grown man whizzing down a pavement (which I saw recently) is one thing. An 8 year old child practising on the pavement is quite another and I would not be bothered by this at all.

Actually to soften what I said a bit, the supervision is as much for her benefit as anyone elses. You are able to deal with problems as they occur rather than after when she is upset, you also KNOW whether she is going a bit fast and can deal with it at the time, rather than it having got to the stage where she's in tears and an elderly neighbour feels intimidated enough to contact the police.

I'm saying this as a Mum of a special needs child who needs a lot of supervision. If there's a problem I'm always first on the scene (ideally I'd rather sort a situation out before it develops. I also can't count the number of times mums can't believe their little darlings behaviour was anything other than perfect, generally when they themselves did not even see.

Sometimes it's simply that the kids (and some adults) don't understand that their behaviour can be interpreted differently by people more vulnerable than they are. They need a grown up to explain.

I would not want my 10 year old riding his bike on the roads unless there was a proper cycle track (ie one with a kerb to separate cars from cyclists) especially around this area of Greater Manchester. He has done a cycle proficiency test but I would prefer him to use the cycle track which are on the pavements.

He knows he has to dismount the bike when pedestrians are using the pavement. I would be very fishwifey if that woman did that to my son

I don't have a problem with sensible riding on quiet pavements. Even the local police pootle along on the pavements in our town. As long as a rider uses their bell and doesn't ride somewhere fast or busy then it doesn't bother me.

TBH I haven't rode a bike in 10 years but I would never take my chance on the roads and never expect my children to (although they are still too young to go out on their own). When the roads are full of safe, non-speeding, non-drunk, non-stoned, non-mobile phone using drivers then I would start to think the roads are ok.