I got road raged today, was I in the wrong?

[VivaLeBeaver]

I'm waiting to come out the supermarket carpark onto a fairly busy road. In the left hand turn lane and indicating left. A woman on a cycle with a kid on a tag along tried undertaking me. Managed to shove between my car and the pavement but couldn't get any further then level with me due to the nose of my car been a bit further to the left. Now I thought undertaking in this manner as a cyclist is dangerous if to illegal. I think she thought when the car infront of me moved I'd let her in - well I didn't I carried on,in a slow and safe manner. I was in no danger of hitting her at all but I did make her stop. As far as I was concerned she could wait her turn rather than trying to undertake a car which is clearly turning left.

So I'm now on the road, the cyclist and her cyclist husband are following. I come to amino roundabout, fairly big one for a mini roundabout and went right round it so I was double backed on myself. Fairly standard I'd have thought to save trying to turn right out the supermarket. Enough room and I was indicating.

As I went round the roundabout the bloke cyclist swore at me and told me I needed to have a P on me. I assume he means a P plate rather than a golden shower.

I know I could have let them undertake me and push infront but I don't have to. She's lucky to be honest I saw her. I think a lot of cars wouldn't and she and her kid could have been squished. Strangely he seemed more annoyed at me going all the way round the roundabout. That's not wrong is it?

YANBU. When I drive or cycle I always treat the bike as if it was the same size as a small car. So if I am driving I would overtake a bike giving it the same room as a old style mini. And if I am cycling, if there is not enough room to get an old syle mini through the gap in traffic, then I won't cycle through it. Expecailly if it means undertaking a car/bus/lorry.

I take it you don't cycle in London dubz, you would never get anywhere that way. Most of the cycle lanes (indicated by green tarmac and broken line) are little wider than a bike's handlebars. There is a 4-6 mile stretch in the middle of my commute along which I usually play leapfrog with vehicles: I can usually track a vehicle as it passes me at the beginning of this section, knowing that I will catch it up as it waits at the back of a queue of traffic at the next set of lights. I will pass it and get some distance ahead by filtering up through the traffic, only for it to pass me again when the traffic flows again. This usually repeats about 8-10 times until I get to the point where the traffic flows more freely. If I just sat at the back of the queue, what takes me 20-30 mins depending on the number of red lights I hit, would easily take me double that time.

I think you could've let her through op no skin off your nose, why not just be nice

Do you have a Google Maps/Streetview link?

Please.

I'm not sure I understand the whole scenario but undertaking can be dangerous and I think if I were a cyclist I would avoid it at a junction because people are going to be manoeuvring in one direction or another and it just puts you in danger. I'm pretty bike-aware but the undertaking just because you can is not sensible. She should have placed herself in the middle of the lane behind the car she arrived behind and waited her turn, giving herself maximum lane space.

When I drive I hardly ever overtake because it's just so dangerous (London). I wish cyclists realised that whenever they overtake/undertake they are making themselves vulnerable.

If you try and cycle without ever undertaking you'll never get anywhere. It's dangerous to go up the side of lorries and buses because of their bigger blind spot and tbh it's also easier to get trapped underneath them than it is the average family car. It's not dangerous to use the space alongside cars. It beccomes unpleasant if the car driver does not use their mirrors and/or behaves like your presence on the road is a personal insult.
Accidents at junctions happen btw when drivers pull out in front of cyclists or when drivers turn in front of cyclists without checking their mirrors. I generally take the view that the road is full of murderous idiots and have had relatively few narrow squeaks. Nasty moment when a van pulled across in front of dd and I - the traffic was stationery and it didn't occur to white van man to check the wide and highly noticeable cycle lane was clear too and the other really bad time was a taxi driver who pulled out in front of me at a junction. Apparently he didn't see me......brightly dressed, in broad daylight and moving at a stately pace.

I bet you overtake cycles, drjohnsoncat, else you would also never get anywhere. Yes, cycling in London is not exactly safe, but actually the vast majority of drivers are prepared to be considerate, and have a good awareness of where bikes are or might be around them. Of course you have to be aware of situations where you may be less than visible, and to be on the look out for other people making mistakes, but it is the idiots who think it is ok to use their cars as a means of enforcing how they think other people should use the road who really need to take a good hard look at themselves. A bit of friendliness and consideration is more likely to see you arriving at your destination in a happy mood, than all the self-rightious aggression of being a road bully will bring.

Northernlurker - it is funny how SMIDSY is the most common excuse - surely that just confirms that the driver has not been paying attention, rather than excuse their carelessness.

the link that was provided up thread showed 57% motorist 43% cyclist didn't see the other vehicle.

it also stated that 75% of accidents with lorries and buses where due to cyclists undertaking at junctions.

Frankly cyclists are as much to blame as car drivers.

thistledew yes I do overtake cyclists, that's true! But if I didn't have to, I wouldn't. if the traffic is moving at the cyclist's pace, for example (which in London it often is).

Obviously a cyclist is so very vulnerable, compared to a car driver. I just hate to see cyclists doing things that put them in danger from decent drivers who are just not anticipating a cyclist here, there, here, there...

I drive around Marble Arch every day with my heart in my mouth as lovely young girls whizz by overtaking and undertaking bendy buses and HGVs who are doing their best to negotiate a massive roundabout with about 6 lanes, other vehicles changing lanes, pedestrians darting into the road. I would love cyclists there to have a safety first mindset and to cycle firmly in the middle of the lane and not try to move ahead of cars in the queue or overtake/undertake. It just makes me sad, to be honest. And I do think this lady was suffering from that compulsion to move forward. Why not wait your turn and avoid fighting for road space with a driver who is just managing her own entry onto the roundabout and who thinks you are safely behind her and not in the danger zone?

There is one easy way to cut the number of deaths of cyclists - get more people cycling! It will cut the congestion on the roads, speed up the journey times for both cyclists and drivers, and mean that more people who do get behind the wheel will have a good understanding of the road from a cyclist's perspective. Not to mention the benefits of increased health and fitness of the nation.

I sort of agree. I would love to see London like Amsterdam with cycling as the normal way to get around. But in Amsterdam there is lots of separate space for bikes so they are not sharing dangerous roadspace with massive HGVs and buses.

I do think cyclists need to think like drivers too though. Don't be alongside one when they are turning, basically.

Thistledew

"There is one easy way to cut the number of deaths of cyclists - get more people cycling!"

A very simplistic view which may work in major towns and cities but unfortunately not for people that have been forced to move away from where they work due to house prices etc.

PomPom "Besides, I didn't say all cyclists are at fault, but let's be honest here, most of them are". Well that's fairly wrong.

At least this thread is less violent than the one the other day where posters advocated maiming cyclists. Which MN let stand.

Studies have shown that motorists are to blame for the great majority of motorist-cyclist accidents.

pubsindex.trb.org/view.aspx?id=469382
news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/study-blames-drivers-for-bike-crashes-20101122-18330.html

that would be a study unless you can find more.

It's one of the reasons why we have gun control in this country.

Yabu and quite horrible actually.

I cycle with my DC....sometimes DD is on a tagalong and sometimes not...and thank God, where I live people are considerate and help me get on my way safely. What an arsey thing you did.

That would be TWO studies I linked there. One in Hawaii, one in Australia

Here's a third for the UK:

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling-bike-accidents-study

TBH as a cyclist I have much better awareness of what's going on, better visibility than a car driver.

Cars have many distractions, lots of metal and glass in the way, and it's no surprise that car drivers are too blame most of the time.

Dubz a bike is not a small car though. It can't go as fast and is more vulnerable. Tha does not mean that people shouldn't be considerate.

As long as you persist in believing that the car driver is to blame for the majority of accidents the accidents will never stop.

Accidents will never stop, they are inherent in life. That's an inane statement.

Sounds like she just did a regular left turn....cyclists do not go behind you but beside you.
Even if a cyclist pulls up at a light after me I always let them go first surely?
Least I can do for the sheer fact I pollute the environment with my car whilst they do not.
Yabu.

Well there is no logic to that Boney, if you don't mind me saying. It isn't a belief - it's researched. The vast majority of drivers are usually considerate. It's just the small minority who 'didn't see you there mate' who will carelessly kill. Better driving will reduce accidents, and poss. more sane cycling (though one of those studies indicate this wouldn't make much difference!)