I got road raged today, was I in the wrong?

[VivaLeBeaver]

I'm waiting to come out the supermarket carpark onto a fairly busy road. In the left hand turn lane and indicating left. A woman on a cycle with a kid on a tag along tried undertaking me. Managed to shove between my car and the pavement but couldn't get any further then level with me due to the nose of my car been a bit further to the left. Now I thought undertaking in this manner as a cyclist is dangerous if to illegal. I think she thought when the car infront of me moved I'd let her in - well I didn't I carried on,in a slow and safe manner. I was in no danger of hitting her at all but I did make her stop. As far as I was concerned she could wait her turn rather than trying to undertake a car which is clearly turning left.

So I'm now on the road, the cyclist and her cyclist husband are following. I come to amino roundabout, fairly big one for a mini roundabout and went right round it so I was double backed on myself. Fairly standard I'd have thought to save trying to turn right out the supermarket. Enough room and I was indicating.

As I went round the roundabout the bloke cyclist swore at me and told me I needed to have a P on me. I assume he means a P plate rather than a golden shower.

I know I could have let them undertake me and push infront but I don't have to. She's lucky to be honest I saw her. I think a lot of cars wouldn't and she and her kid could have been squished. Strangely he seemed more annoyed at me going all the way round the roundabout. That's not wrong is it?

I'm a regular cyclist, cycle more than I drive, and I would have waited behind you in the situation you describe, especially with a child riding with me.

We have a road pretty much as you describe coming out of our local swimming pool, 2 very narrow lanes (1 for left turners, 1 for right) and traffic lights, sometimes there's not room for 2 cars side by side if they're big cars and cyclists undertake there all the time. The last time I was there I acquired a lovely scratch all along the side of my car because a cyclist had tried to squeeze between me and the kerb when we were sitting in stationary traffic

There's a Safer Cycling page here which states the following for drivers:

?When turning left watch for cyclists on your near side

So presumably there's nothing in the Highway Code which states that cyclists musn't do this.

However, I only took my test about four years ago and I can remember my instructor, like others are saying on here, telling me that cyclists shouldn't do this at narrow junctions or where there's no lane/box for them, for the reasons others have cited above (damage to car etc). However, he also said that you must at all times be aware of more vulnerable road users and make allowances for them...

I wouldn't have necessarily moved to make it easier for her to turn left if I had stopped before she reached the junction but I would have waited to allow her to move off before me at the junction. Would rather see what a cyclist is doing than have them wobble about along side.

If she managed to squeeze up between the pavement and your car when you were stationary, then I think she is within her rights to do so (different if you were a bus or lorry - although I do hestitate when cycling to come alongside a Chelsea tractor with tinted windows. Also I like to know eg the phases of the lights ahead so I am not reaching the front just as vehicles are moving off as that feels like the most dangerous position to be in.

It was a raised mini roundabout, I didn't go over the roundabout. There was enough room to get round it and no signs sayi g you weren't allowed to go right round it.

Generally in a situation like that as a cyclist I'd move out into the middle so I was on your right and not coming up the blind side of cars indicating left. I do that precisely so I don't get cut up and/or flattened by inattentive or vindictive left-turners. But if she had a kid on a tagalong, her total vehicle length would mean that kind of manoeuvering in dense traffic might not have been possible.

So she didn't really have a choice about where she sat in the traffic and was - not unreasonably - filtering toward the junction. Under those circumstances you really might have given her a bit more room. Effectively you cut her up, and you didn't have to. I think YABU.

The front of a stationary queue of traffic is the safest place for a cyclist to me - much safer than being alongside cars which may not have seen you. That's why I always go to the front. Unless drivers can't judge the width of their car they shld not be sat in the gutter and there shld be room to get by.

If you deliberately move to prevent me from getting past I couldn't give a rats arse if I damage your car.

My rule with cyclists is to let them do what they want and let them get as far away from me as possible! I would have let her out.

I like the way your car is big enough that turning left when not positioned as far left as poss is tricky without going on the other side of the road, but small enough to U on a mini roundabout. It is not advisable to U turn on a mini roundabout, I would worry someone would crash into me (and my car probably wouldn't have a samll enough turning circle).

Tha all depend Oi shink she thought you were gone acrorst her loike

It's summer holidays there's always muppets about

Glad someone else has moved onto part 2 of op's poor driving: u turns on mini-roundabouts are not a brill idea tbh
So overall, I can see why they thought you needed a P sign (can't turn right, uses mini roundabouts for u turn, dubious turn at junction) but it wasn't the end of the world bad driving either. Sure I've done similar some days. Let it go, I'm not sure I'd call it road rage really, and be the bigger person next time a cyclist does that. It's normal by us for cyclists to 'undertake' (not that it counts as undertaking) and they usually go first in those advance cyclist boxes as cyclists are most at risk when setting off at junctions like that as they are slower, can wobble, left turning vehicles can hit them etc. Nice to let them go first when you can. Have to say I'd never do that if cycling with my kids though - it is risky.
Btw are you sure your indicators work?

I thought cyclists were actually supposed to go past (stationary) queing cars to get to the front, that's why there are green boxes for them at lights etc - simply safer for them to be visible in front rather than hidden in someones blind spot?

Disregarding this particular incident, A cyclist should alway take up and be given the same room as a car, therefore, to me the should not be edging down the Sid elf traffic at a junction especially down the blind side of someone about to turn left. And especially whils towing a child. How in gods name can you see the trailer when it's lower than you window in a car. My driving instructor (5 years ago) told me to always check my left side mirror for BOB, boy on bike. Even though they shouldnt be there, they should be I. The queue of traffic waiting their turn like everyone else.

Highway Code again:

160
...

Be aware of other road users, especially cycles and motorcycles who may be filtering through the traffic. These are more difficult to see than larger vehicles and their riders are particularly vulnerable. Give them plenty of room, especially if you are driving a long vehicle or towing a trailer.

"P" or "R" plates should be made compulsory in ALL parts of the U.K to warn other road users that an inexperienced driver is at the wheel, the top speed that a learner or "R" driver can drive at should also be reduced to 45 mph for a full year in ALL parts of the U.K.

I disagree with the speed restriction bureni. It would cause far more hazards through other drivers overtaking the hundreds of newly qualified drivers, than those drivers themselves pose by driving at the speed limit.

I'm confused.

If she was moving down a line of traffic how could she be expected to safely stop behind you? (i.e. cars behind you would have prevented her from doing so, surely?)

Getting trapped to the left of cars that are making turning left is a vulnerable position to be in, and as others have pointed out this is precisely why there are those advance cyclists boxes on so many roads.

I'm not averse to waiting my turn in the traffic in the middle of the road, but sometimes in that position you get a raging dickhead behind you that's then right up your arse and obviously irritated by the fact that as a cyclist you can't pull off as fast as a car can. This makes for a dangerous (and unnecessary) game of cat and mouse.

Often in this situation, with a big line of traffic, the best place you can try and position yourself is at the front of the traffic so that you can be first off, get yourself back to the left of the road before idiots try and cut you up on the left-turn, and without pissing off other road users.

I think YABU, and that you're too focused on the "well I wouldn't cycle like that" idea to the point of almost 'punishing' her for taking a different choice.

Doesn't excuse the obscenities however.

The speed restriction during learning and after passing the driving test has proven to be very effective in reducing road deaths/accidents and also allows an inexperinced driver to gain the necessary skills as opposed to tearing around the streets at 70 mph with an L plate n the window.

Apologies for the crap English there

tramadolface

the top speed that a learner or "R" driver can drive at should also be reduced to 45 mph for a full year in ALL parts of the U.K.

What a truly ridiculous idea. My local test centre is located off a slip road of a dual carriageway and all learners are taught to drive on the dual carriageway (at the maximum speed) in order to get them used to doing this first on their test, and in Actual Real Life. What you are suggesting is incredibly dangerous. 'Hey person with limited experience, go on a dual carriageway/motorway and pootle, thus causing tail backs and probably provoking people getting mightily pissed off and overtaking when it's not safe to do so.'

FeakandWeeble, that guideline refers to someone turning left from a main road into a side road. The OP was not doing this.

Bloody cyclists

Bureni - that's bollocks tbh. I passed my test 54 weeks ago. I did not display P plates because frankly I'd had enough aggression from 'experienced' drivers whilst learning. If I'd only driven at 45 mph I would have learnt nothing tbh. When I passed my test I could drive competently on 'town' roads. Now I cvan do motorways too.

I agree with "P" plates being compulsory bureni but that speed restriction would be ridiculous. If they couldn't go over 45mph, drivers would effectively be unable to drive on motorways, single or dual carriageways until a year after they've passed their test. And then they should be automatically allowed with no experience in changing lanes/driving at that speed?

BodyOfEeyore happy to be corrected, I was in the YANBU campe

Or camp even...