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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think law and social science degrees are a waste of time?

168 replies

Wowserz129 · 05/08/2012 17:37

Are law degrees a waste of time? I wanted to study law through OU but everyone thought this was a silly idea and hardly anyone actually manages to get work after.

6 people (not many I know) that I know have studied social science, one studied social Policy and criminology have had to go on to study masters or not gotton jobs. 5 out of the 6 said they wished they studied something more useful.

What is your opinion on these type degrees?

OP posts:
outtolunchagain · 06/08/2012 18:28

You don't need a law degree to be a lawyer, I think only about 50% now have a law degree , but you do need an academic degree from a traditional university

wordfactory · 06/08/2012 18:29

You have to do the conversion course though. Which costs quite a bit and takes another year.

Piccalilli2 · 06/08/2012 18:29

I wouldn't advise anyone to do a law degree with a view to actually becoming a lawyer unless they expect to get at least a 2:1 from a decent (probably Russell Group) Uni and already have good A levels - the competition is just too fierce for training contracts and then jobs these days. And even then you'll need a well-rounded CV and relevant work/voluntary experience. To put that in context, in a very different job market 14 yrs ago I had 5 A A levels, spoke fluent German, predicted (and got) a 1st from Oxford with a year in Germany studying for an LLM and I was only offered 2 training contracts. These days I probably wouldn't even get that.

Having said that a good law degree does give you transferable skills (eg very analytic) so if you're interested in it it isn't a dead end choice.

wordfactory · 06/08/2012 18:32

Picallilli it gets worse all the time.

So much fabulous competition coming in from over seas.

Aboutlastnight · 06/08/2012 18:33

Re the OU

I have a 2:1 soc science degree from Sheffield University and am now studying a second degree with the OU.

The OU marks hard and standards are high - my last tutor was also a lecturer at Glasgow uni, my current tutor has been working professionally in the field for decades.
I have been so impressed with the quality of materials and support but it is not an easy ride, especially as you have to work out so much by yourself, plan your time around work etc

It's good to aim for a distinction - point doing it unless you want to achieve your very best.

worldcitizen · 06/08/2012 18:45

what do lawyers contribute to society? Shock

Seriously, asking these sort of questions shows how far some people are away from academic knowledge.
Also, not understanding what sociology is about, is like not having understood lots of things.

That political science, philosophy, theology, history, economics, sociology, and law are as academic as it can get...and some people not even having a clue...makes me Hmm

worldcitizen · 06/08/2012 18:48

Oh, and and chapeau to lots of posters here, giving so much advice and explaining lots of details...

AnnaFalactic · 06/08/2012 20:09

Can people not read? OP does not want to become a lawyer! A degree in law however could be relevant for other careers that require legal knowledge ...

EclecticShock · 06/08/2012 20:12

These degrees generally need masters or doctorates to use professionally, but they can still be useful in getting other jobs. Not a waste of time. Law degrees are very well respected.

Aboutlastnight · 06/08/2012 20:17

Indeed. I think OU undergraduate degree is a goud route to post grad training/ study at bricks and mortar university.

WinstonWolf · 06/08/2012 22:10

Wowszers - In your position I'd investigate the differences between starting a degree p/t with the OU and p/t or f/t with a 'bricks and mortar uni' particularly now that the funding system has changed.

For example, if you relocated to go to University you would be applying sometime after this September for atarting Sept 2013.

Your child would then be closer to 2yo and parenting should be easier, and in addition you'll have gotten into the swing of things as a lone parent.

The student finance package should include a childcare grant (covers 85% of childcare fees) if you're full time, and there will no doubt be bursaries etc available through the University.

If that's really not what you want to do then I apologise for givin unwanted advice!

AnnaFalactic -That's really interesting to read with regards to OU/b&m Uni standards.

I'll admit that I only know people who studied similar things as I did (sciences), but we've been in agreement with re: to the differences.

My conditional offer to enter my 'b&m' Universitg was to get all assignments at 85+ (level two course) as an 'equivalent' to standard age A-level students.

WinstonWolf · 06/08/2012 22:11

Apologies for terrible English above (really should stop attempting to post today!)

creighton · 06/08/2012 22:33

lawyers exist to line their own pockets. i don't care how deep into academia you get worldcitizen or how you kid yourselves that YOU.HELP.PEOPLE. the only lawyers i have come across see ordinary people as collateral damage on their way to £100,000 salaries and will work for any bastard company that drops cash in front of them. you have your latin mumbo jumbo to hide behind (much like doctors) so the lay people don't know what you are up to. then you sit around feeling pleased with yourselves. can you tell i have no great regard for lawyers.

Trazzletoes · 06/08/2012 23:12

Apologies for hijacking your thread, OP, but Creighton you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. 1) Solicitors are trained to use clear language to explain flipping complicated legal principles PRECISELY so that our clients can understand us. Why would we choose to hide behind Latin Mumbo jumbo? 2) I can't speak for everyone, but those of us who work in Legal Aid are certainly not on the way to £100,000 salaries. I dream of being paid anywhere near the salary of a bus driver, or a dust man. And I can promise you I work significantly longer hours and have a much more stressful job than them and have a much higher level of training. I DO help people. In fact, I help people to save their lives by becoming recognised as refugees. What the hell do you do?

OP Law is a good degree to have regardless of whether or not you choose to pursue it as a career.

eagleray · 06/08/2012 23:45

I did the OU LLB course the very first year it came out. Was in my mid/late twenties at the time, with only high school education and still no idea what I wanted to do career-wise (was doing fairly lowly office jobs until then).

Cannot even remember why I chose law (was initially wanting to do something arts-based, although looking back, I don't think I would have progressed very much career-wise) I generally found it a slog, and pretty isolating (this was just before the internet was widely-used and so little contact with other students)

While I was studying, I got a job in IT, working for a law firm (on the basis that I had some legal knowledge and they could train me in the IT bit!). Fast forward a few years, I am now very experienced and freelancing, and while I find my legal knowledge useful now and again, I certainly don't need it for my job. Some people have said it was all for nothing, but it did give me a lot of self-confidence, and the fact that I was studying seemed to open an incredible amount of doors.

Of course, people do degrees for different reasons - it doesn't have to be about getting you a good job - for me, it was about feeling capable, realising potential and also being able to earn a decent living. If I was to return to education now (unlikely!) and I would probably do something more related to my own interests.

DP is Oxbridge-educated and (jokingly) likes to sneer at my degree now and again, but I know who worked hardest, and who is the most successful career-wise now!!!

Noqontrol · 06/08/2012 23:51

Godamit creighton the lawyer who helped me when I got smashed up in a car accident was bloody amazing. I don't agree with your comment about lining her pockets, she worked hard to compensate me for everything I had lost and got paid her wages for it. Obviously.

Peppin · 07/08/2012 07:18

Wow Creighton you must have had a very bad experience with a lawyer to be so bitter. Funnily enough yesterday my kids were chatting about what they want to be when they grow up and one said "banker" and the other one said "no, everyone hates bankers", then they went through lawyer, estate agent, footballer, doctor, teacher... and concluded that people "hate" people in all of these professions. I explained to them that hatred is usually borne of ignorance and fear rather than anything as unlikely as the reality being that an entire profession is hateful.

Law is a specialist area in which "lay" people require expert advice if they are not to be shafted. Before I became a lawyer, I spent £20,000 on legal fees getting divorced. Had I not done so, it would have "cost" me a lot more. My lawyer was superb, and in subsequent years when I have needed a bit of ad hoc advice on contact, etc., she has spent hours giving it without ever charging for it. Even though she is now the Head of the Family team at her (well regarded regional) firm. So we are not all bad. Hopefully next time you need a lawyer (and there will be a next time), you find a better one.

worldcitizen · 07/08/2012 09:41

creighton

I see some others have responded to you with so much detail (and emotion), but I can only imagine, with you it'll go in one ear and out the other.

I find many of your posts spiteful and angry, so should there be any substance, I am "unfortunately" missing it, cause I am simply not going to read your responses anymore, as I have read quite a few on various different threads and I find them rude and ill-mannered. Sorry.

Being controversial, or expressing dissagreement etc. is all fantastic in my book, but maybe you should go and read some law or social science, so you'd at least learn how to get your view across to the effect that you actually could be taken seriously.

Sorry creighton but I think slamming your anger down people's throats on various threads doesn't cut it.Sad

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 07/08/2012 10:01

creighton I have done quite a lot of unpaid work defending people who were facing eviction for rent and mortgage areas in a dingy county court. Its not my usual area of work so no chance of any spin off business. There were plenty of other lawyers there working for nothing.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 07/08/2012 10:02

Arrears not areas.

BonnieBumble · 07/08/2012 10:05

Slightly off topic but I know of people getting offered training contracts with large regional companies who graduated from ex polys. There isn't so much snobbery outside London.

Sassee · 07/08/2012 10:14

Wow Creighton!

You're right, I don't help anyone, particularly not those children who have been physically or sexually abused or neglected! Those children for whom food and clothes is a luxury! I don't help them at all! They're just collateral damage while I strive to reach the top.

Lawyers do all manner of different jobs! I really do give a shit about the children I work so hard to protect. And before you jump on the social workers band wagon, they work bloody hard too, not paid nearly enough. Contrary to popular belief it makes my day when the parents pull it together and the children go home!

£100,000 salary! Yeah right! I bloody wish! My bosses, bosses boss doesn't earn that!

Wowserz129 · 07/08/2012 10:15

I dont believe in order to do the best in your career you need to go to a red brick university.

Most Scottish students go too scottish universities as it gets paid and I am sure plently fair well.

I live in Scotland so there is no way i would move that far away!

The problem with going back to uni is that I would need to pay to go this time as i used up my free funding last time. Where as with OU I do not need to pay!

OP posts:
Sassee · 07/08/2012 10:16

And I went to an ex poly! Follow your dreams OP, get some experience, work bloody hard and it will come good in the end! Don't be too proud to work as an assistant or secretary first, I did, had a training contract within 6 months of that job.

Sassee · 07/08/2012 10:26

Just realise OP doesn't want to be a lawyer, oops Blush

We follow your dreams if you do, blah blah blah Grin

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