To think law and social science degrees are a waste of time?

[Wowserz129]

Are law degrees a waste of time? I wanted to study law through OU but everyone thought this was a silly idea and hardly anyone actually manages to get work after.

6 people (not many I know) that I know have studied social science, one studied social Policy and criminology have had to go on to study masters or not gotton jobs. 5 out of the 6 said they wished they studied something more useful.

What is your opinion on these type degrees?

Sorry to put a slight downer on it, Criminology has become incredibly popular across all types of institutions, but there are not enough jobs in this sector of the type people imagine they might get. For example, many people would like to be a CSI, but usually the police train in-house, from those without degrees, leaving all those people with firsts in Criminology wandering around. If you want to work in social work or youth work, I would probably do either a tailored social work degree or a solid conventional 'academic' subject (e.g. Psychology).

Doing Criminology isn't valueless, it's a great subject, but it's also a fashionable subject and there are thousands of graduates wandering around with Criminology degrees (or that with Psychology, Sociology, Social Policy) who can't work in the criminal justice system. It is a bit like law: it's not that no-one gets jobs, but they tend to go to the best universities and/or work very hard to get contacts in the area from which they launch their further training.

I don't want to be discouraging, but sitting in a small town, without making contacts, without really having a focused goal, slogging for 6 years plus at this particular topic to get an OU degree may not give you the type of job you want. You may be better off doing social care/youth work type work now, and working your way up to management/strategic level.

I teach a social science subject at university, and without a doubt, the students who really make the most of it are the ones who are massively proactive outside their academic studies, they usually end up with a 2:1, but a list of contacts/companies/very strong focus on what they want to do. And many professional jobs (e.g. working in consultancies, researching, consumer/retail sector) expect a Masters as well, as a minimum.

I would pick a subject which is solid academically, and which you are really going to enjoy (so get better grades), then spend a good proportion of your time making contacts/doing placements/contacting local businesses/charities etc in pursuit of the job you would like to have once you finish (focus on this rather than just getting a degree).

Well i was thinking that if I did the social policy degree then after when my son is in school I would consider doing a masters in social work.

I cant work at the moment as my son is just a baby, hes only 7 months old.

What subjects are classed as solid academically then?

When you say there aren't a lot of opportunities where you live, do you mean just in terms of universities or also in terms of jobs? Because if there aren't many options for work where you live, a degree might not help that much.

Would you be willing to live elsewhere, if it were financially possible? Universities can indeed have lots of support for students with children. Given how much OU fees are going up, it might not cost that much more to go to a standard university if you can get bursaries.

I think it makes sense to go through job listings, pick out the jobs you think you'd like to do, and see what requirements they have. There's absolutely nothing wrong with doing a degree with the aim of getting a job, I think it's naive to not think about employability while studying these days.

Are you attracted to the OU because it is part-time? I only ask as you say you can't work because of your babies age, but if you doing a full-time degree you will need a lot of childcare, so it would be very similar to working.

If you are interested in social work, why not consider this as an undergrad degree rather than just at post-grad level?

On open days, I always tell prospective students that the reasons for doing a degree can be:

1. an interest in the subject
2. for career possibilities

If the subject they are considering doesn't cover at least one of them, they should think again!

I think in your case I'd first work on getting out of that town. I know it's not easy, but it's imperative because now, no matter what field you're in, having work experience to go with your degree is invaluable, even if you have to start by volunteering.

I realise your son is a baby, but it's not impossible, it's just going to take a while.

Perhaps, in getting work experience, you'll also come to desire a particular career path you haven't yet considered.

I'd hold off on university just now, tbh, or look at college courses to start out.

There is a city 30 mins away which has plenty jobs but no university.

Moving is really not a possibility because I need my mum around to help with my son sometimes and I don't want to unsettle things too much with him.

Really I just wanted to know what people thought of the two degrees with reference to career prospects!

It would have to be through OU and I plan too study part time and I don't feel comfortable having my son in childcare so young.

To be honest OP, there are too many graduates and not enough training contracts for lawyers at the moment. In order to give yourself the best possible advantage, you would need a law degree from somewhere more highly thought of.

Sad but true.

Law is an excellent subject to study. Just because you don't go on to become a solicitor doesn't mean it's useless. It's one of the most highly thought of degrees as graduates are able to use the skills they've learned in many environments.

I have an LLB, LLM and GDL all in Law, and although I don't work in the sector any more, it certainly hasn't hindered my job prospects. Many people in the city have law degrees, but don't work in law itself.

I knew a girl who retrained in Law after a degree in history produced very little job potential career wise. She spent in excess of £30k getting the qualification and tried endlessly to get a training contract as a solicitor. She is now massively in debt and hasn't got a better job than she had before (estate agent). I got the impression that it is very difficult to be accepted in to law firms unless you have a very specific background and contacts.

Betty background and contacts don't matter at all (unless you can caste-iron promise a firm work from said contacts).

However where you got your degree from and its class matter greatly. As do your soft skills.

I have a degree in Politics and Economics and have never been without a job. The thing is very few people have jobs that depend on degree only , most people do have another qualification of some kind. In my case I am an accountant.

My dh is a lawyer , he says that the competition for training contracts is so fierce even outside London that really firms do not need to look outside a very small group of universities and sadly the OU would not be one of them. Plus it is a academic job , your best and most essential asset is your brain so he makes no excuses for choosing the graduates who have an excellent academic track record.

Just to add I was thinking about doing a law degree because it is an area of interest but I do not want to be a lawyer.

Background and contacts absolutely matter in law. It still is, unfortunately, very much who you know and not so much what you know, unless you are one of the fantastic few with a first. The majority will graduate with a 2:1, and those who have contacts at a law firm will be head and shoulders above anyone else applying. This is especially true at large firms, and magic circle.

Bunty that is not my experience at all.

I mean, what contacts could a twenty year old really have? That matters to a huge global law firm?

My experience also suggests that wordfactory is right. I had no contacts and my background was completely non-professional. Non-law degree follwed by the conversion course and then blind applications for pupillages (no prior work experience) resulted in three offers.

Having said that, this was all quite a while ago. I suspect that things may be slightly different now.

What matters in prestigious law firms and barristers chambers is that you have the right degree in the right class from the right place.

Now obvioulsy most of the applicatnts with these prerequisites will be from a certain backgorund....

Add to that the necessary soft skills : being inordintaley articulate, confident and flexible. An acceptance that you are going to have to work stuoid hours and do some dire jobs...etc ...etc...

Contacts might help at a push. But they woul dneed to be sterling to secure a place over a better qualified applicant. At the end of the day, contacts are just people you know.

Do people not make contacts during their degrees? People I know doing law all did - they went and did internships (unpaid AFAIK).

I think it's a bit of both in law (contacts & study). All the students who got work experience in chambers were generally known to the firm via friends or family, and such experience on a CV is very helpful.

Equally, getting a good degree from an outstanding university also gets you noticed by magic circle firms (DH had his LPC paid for by a certain Magic circle firm which meant he had no problem getting a training contract).

I would be careful what you choose to study OP, as I know several psychology students (who have masters to boot) and many law students who are both out of work. Keep studying a subject that interests you but think carefully whilst you do it. From memory the OU degree takes six years, so after two or three years, your little boy will be in school and then perhaps you can look for work to enhance your studies.

LRD - that seems to be the current practice, certainly. At this time of year we are certainly inundated with undergraduates looking for unpaid placements. I suppose it gives them cv points on the basis that it shows enthusiasm. It may also give them a glimpse of what real life as a lawyer is like.

Company A takes interns. One of it's major clients is company B. Guess where the children of very senior people who work for B and are interested in A's line of work get their work experience? I don't know if this applies to the law but it is very common in business.

In your position I personally would spend the next five months trying to improve either a foreign language or a computing skill - anything that will give you a relatively quick win on your cv, then find a job, any job that interests you and may have prospects. Once you're in then you'll have a much better sense of the way forward and what sort of qualifications will be needed to progress. I wouldn't start on the long road to an OU degree now when you have no idea what the next six years will hold.
Do you have family who can help with childcare?

Oh internships, sure.
They completely work on who you know. And sicne they're unpaid, only those whose parents can keep em need apply.

However, a training contract is different. It is a huge committment of money, and, perhaps more importantly, time. Big global firms won't take on anyone who they think won't cut it. Not even as a favour.

Contacts won't hurt obviously. And might give you the edge. But you'll still need excellent academics and soft skills. And not having any contacts won't preclude you getting a contract if you have the right stuff.

"what do lawyers contribute to society? at least sociologists and social policy students may be able to help us in some way. "

We make it function

"only those whose parents can keep em need apply."

first thing my law lecturer said to us was along the lines of "don't fool yourselves, becoming a lawyer doesn't mean you're smarter than everyone else, it just means you're in a position to not earn for 7 years and not starve."

YABU. Social sciences might be, depending on what kind of work you would like to do upon graduation, but studying law is the only way to become a lawyer, so not a waste of time if that is what you want to be.