To think law and social science degrees are a waste of time?

[Wowserz129]

Are law degrees a waste of time? I wanted to study law through OU but everyone thought this was a silly idea and hardly anyone actually manages to get work after.

6 people (not many I know) that I know have studied social science, one studied social Policy and criminology have had to go on to study masters or not gotton jobs. 5 out of the 6 said they wished they studied something more useful.

What is your opinion on these type degrees?

Just sounded a bit arrogant the way she said it.

But anyway, no a law degree or degree in social sciences is not necessarily a waste of time.

Haha Ellen - all I was saying was that if I was getting 80%+ grades at a brick Uni where the marking system was such that 70%+ was a guaranteed 'first', then I would indeed get the first that I so desire, does that make sense?

Erm, ellen, she's putting herself down. You quoted the wrong bit - she put a 'blush'.

You sound a lot more arrogant diving in with a rude comment when you've not read properly.

anna - yes, and I suppose if it works for someone, it'll actually look better on a CV to be able to say you sourced your own placements and made your own contacts. The worry would be, the OP is not close to any universities and if she's out in the sticks, it could be tricky, depending what she decides to do.

Din't mean it in an arrogant way, I'll be quite happy with my 2:1 from the OU ;)

I am a lawyer and did a law degree. It is not necessary to do a law degree to become a lawyer and competition for training contracts / pupillages is tough. Law is a good and useful degree, I work in the City and there are quite a few people working on the financing side that have law degrees as it is a respected old style professional subject.
BUT
If you are not interested in law then it is a slog and a dull slog at that. I loved it because I am fascinated with the whole process of law making etc but I had friends at Uni who were doing it because their parents thought it was a good degree to have and they hated it.

Unless you have a specific profession you are aiming at (and remember you don't need a law degree to be a lawyer though you will have to do a conversion course) then I would look for a subject that will be respected with transferable skills that you enjoy and are likely to do well in. A third class law degree will not trump a first in another respectable subject.

Yeah I know what you mean. For what it's worth I do think it is a bit stupid that because a first is 70% most of the top range of marks are never given!

LRD give it a rest.

Another alternative to the OU is the University of London International programme which is distance learning provided by various parts of the Uni of London inc LSE etc.

www.londoninternational.ac.uk/uk

In the current climate it is very very difficult to get a legal traineeship and many graduates with LLB's are having to look at other kinds of jobs.

Tbh I wouldnt do a social science degree in the current financial climate. My niece is currently planning to study that at uni and quite frankly I think she would be far better trying to find work.

Btw before I get flamed-I did a degree in english and media studies 13 years ago and have never used my degree....

My DF was a professor in social sciences.

You do need someone to do it. For example, to work out how to create better opportunities for everyone in work, housing, education and child rearing. To look at what happens when social services fail - who suffers and why. To study conflict and how it can be averted.

DH used to show his students a film called 'Cathy come home' (think it was called) about a woman who loses her children into the care system. By the standarsd of the time it was hard to watch. He would say 'this is why you're here. don't lose sight of that'.

As far as I'm aware, for the areas that the OP is looking at (Law/social sciences) the placement issue wouldn't effect her.

Here is info on the social sciences pathway

and here for Law

There are lot's of different options available to you, and to some extent, you cant tailor your degree to match your own interests.

Another option is an Open Degree, where you can do a mixture of any modules you like, although I know for sure that this gets a lot of from the average person as it's not a 'named' degree.

Cathy come Home, isn't that one of Ken Loach's early works???

Mmmmh, but media studies and social science....cannot really compare the two, me thinks

I have a First from the LSE, I'm still unemployed!

I disagree world-certainly here in scotland you dont need excellent grades to study social sciences-very mediocre in fact meaning that the universities are churning out graduates with a mediocre degree..... but you still need all A's to have a hope in hell of reading law.....

goranis if you want to do a postgraduate degree at Glasgow uni for example, yes you would need excellent grades.

I'm quite old and didn't pay undergrad fees.

If I were to do it all again, I might be put off university altogether due to the costs. However, if that could be overcome, would still think LLB from a well regarded institution would be worth considering.

If a course is quite selective in terms of entry requirements i.e. high grades, hopefully the qualification would be of some value.

I do wonder though if the fees and the economy were as they are now if I would have gone at all.

I agree to an extnt with op about social science degrees, I know nothing about law so can't comment on that. I have a degree in psychology, which by itself doesn't mean a lot, and no jobs I've had since I've graduated have needed, or been related to, my degree. Given my time again I woud do a degree that was more likely to lead to a job, nursing, teaching etc.

Wowszer: "I dont live near a university and I have a young son at home"

These don't have to be obstacles to attending a "bricks and mortar" University if that's what you want to do. Have you checked your potential eligibility to student finance?

AnnaFalactic: Having studied a similar subject through both the Open University and a "bricks and mortar" University, it's fair to say that they are not even remotely equal with regards to work set/levels/what is needed to achieve that magical 85%+

I'm not knocking the OU at all, and I very much enjoyed my time studying with them, but IME the grading really isn't comparable.

Only someone with a degree could say they had one, but have never "used it". There is so much you just learn, particularly in law, that is relevant in any employment and life generally. No one would ever take you for a fool again. Because if you don't know the specific legal details of a situation, you would be able to find the relevant information and use it. Time and time again.

I have a 2.1 law degree from London University. I did this at with a young son. Dh was quite helpful there. I loved it. After the degree, and this is where you will be disappointed, you need £10k to do the one year professional legal course. Only the very, very best 5% have their fees paid by a law firm who want to employ them when they come out of the course. You will have to find £3,300 per term.

Also, by year 3 I realised I had made a mistake; everyone else who actually wanted a job in law had been networking since the beginning of year 2. In law networking is everything, especially if you are handicapped by age/children when, frankly, there are free and single 22-year-olds available. Unfortunately, that is the reality.

If I were you I would go to a few local law firms, with enthusiasm, and ask about possible future placements... they will love the dedication.. the degree, and I assume you are perfectly competent, is secondary.

If all that sounds like a hassle, maybe you should think again.

Although I didn't get to do the solicitors training course, I use my law degree all the time. Because we are all involved in employment, financial, housing situations all the time. And without my law degree I would have been in very unhelpful situations and I have taught more than a few people/organisations some lessons along the way!

Good luck OP.

Winston - I have never studied at a brick Uni so only have my OU experience, and conversations with people who have studied at both to go on. The majority of people say that the standard at OU is much higher, but obviously this is subjective and will wary from student to student and University to University.

I started a law degree and was really enjoying my studies(whilst working full time in a law firm). The practice manager kindly advised me to jack in the law degree and do ILEX as you can use the f/t work you do towards your qualification, plus it negates the need for the training contract. I have done this, and whilst it has taken me slightly longer, I am aiming to be a FILEX by next year and do the work of a solicitor. However the pay grades are lower and this route can be looked down on by some solicitors, but there is a conversion to be a solicitor, after a certain number of years PQE.

However, of you wish to continue the law degree route then I'd second what kate2mum said and do as much work experience as you possibly can. Not only will it look good on your CV but it also helps you gain an understanding of what will be taught on the LPC. Coincidentally, I used to be a finance manager at my last firm and the amount of CVs we threw away due to lack of experience was astonishing. Also, it was a legal aid firm, but plenty of people who only studied commercial law for their final seats applied - which didn't hel their application. Coming from a good university and having a wide range of work experience (CAB volunteering is ideal - if you can get in) will put you in a much stronger position. Also think about which route you want - the LPC or BVC, as both of them are full time courses and require you to be studying at a university (and the workload is very high on both of these). This is all something you would need to consider, especially if you need to get childcare arrangements in place.

Anything has to be better than media studies!

Reindeer, it is hard to get a training contract, pupillages are like rocking horse poo. So many BVC graduates on £15k paralegal roles at age 30 with loads of debt and no prospect of fulfilling their career dreams.
I get so annoyed by the moneymaking that are the LPC and BVC courses. Really wrong.

LizzyLou, I know. We once had over two hundred applicants for one legal aid training contract (salary of £14K). That's why I did the LPC. What concerned me about the OP is that she wants to be a lawyer or use her law degree, but is doing it part time to fit in with her children, whilst the LPC can be done part time (in the evenings), the BVC cannot and both are bloody hard work, even the part time courses.

I think the real let down is the preparation of university lecturers not being realistic about post degree situations. I would agree that it isn't an issue for RG universities but for all others it is. They need to think about what role would suit them best and be completely open about the fact it may take a long time to get pupillage (nigh on impossible at this moment in time) or training contracts which are very thin on the ground. Only those from RG universities walk into a firm funded LPC/training contract.