To feel offended by childless friend telling me how much her life would suck if she had children?

[LesleyPumpshaft]

I want to know if I am being overly sensitive and if I ABU. My bessie mate has no children and she is coming to the end of her time so to speak. Her and her husband have good jobs and are better off than me and DP. I only have one teenage son, but he is a wallet vampire, and as soon as I get money together for anything I want, he'll need stuff. As you all know, family holidays and days out, meals are more expensive with kids. Then there's residential school trips etc.

The thing is, her DH wants children and she isn't sure. She keeps banging on about what a great life her and her husband have and about how she would have to stop work, or go part time if she had a baby. She'll then go on to say that having less money and not being able to do the things she wants would be horrible. She'll point out how she can buy what she wants and do what she wants, and she would hate it if that had to change. Then again, what if she left it too late and then regretted it?

Yesterday I got rather offended. Yes, I don't have as much money as her and my son is 13, so me and DP can't just do whatever we want. I do feel as though she is being a bit rude. AIBU to feel as though when she bangs on about this, there may be a slight element of female competitiveness and subtle put down?

So, I just told her yesterday 'you're right, don?t bother having kids because it's just really shit!'. Was I BU and a bit rude to say this? I love her to bits, but I feel as though she is pointing out how inadequate we are whenever she starts on this subject.

I have a friend who told me exactly the same, didn't want any children as it would spoil their lifestyle and they would have less freedom and money, and that children make the things they want to do harder. The difference is; I agreed with her. For her and her husband, with their priorities, it's the right thing to do not to have children. I didn't take it as a slight on my own choice to have them.

Seems to me your friend was thinking through out loud her own choices (and 'what if's?), I am surprised you took this personally. If my friend came to me and went on and on about whether to become a top model, I would not take it as a slight against myself that I look like the back end of a bus. Nothing she has said is out of order IMO, and is normal fodder for friends who have different paths in life, some with, some without children.

Although I do agree with you that pointing out that children probably won't plunge her into poverty, if she is quite wealthy, is no bad thing. Giving her different perspectives on the issue, plus just listening (and not taking this stuff personally) will really help her sort out what she wants.

You do sound like quite a nice nobber though, Lesley.

Maybe ask your friend what's concerning her deep down, she obviously trusts you enough to talk through personal stuff and perhaps there's more going on there than she's said.

I very much doubt that she would be trying to put you down; it's just that you have different lifestyles - there's no right or wrong one.

They also have a dog that they won't put in kennels if they go away, so it's not as though they can jet off on a whim anyway. Dogs are a bit like having children anyway.

I think she wants kids but doesnt want to admit it or is maybe worried that she may not have kids and so keeps harping on about the things that are good about her life. Yes having kids is expensive but they can also bring joy & fun.

'Her and her DH would make fab parents too. Perhaps I need to stress this to her?'

Please don't. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to be a mother. It's a totally reasonable, normal choice. If she is being pressured by her DP the last thing she needs is to hear it from you too. And if she is actually being defensive because she's having fertility issues (as some posters have suggested) it would be really horrible for her.

Even though she is your best mate and is chuntering on offending you, she may be doing it because she is secretly TTC and with each passing month is telling herself (and others) that being childless is her decision...

I told everyone that I didn't like children for years (like a stuck record) while it was true in my teens and 20's; in my 30's the biological clock had started ticking...

When I didn't conceive immediately I started to tell myself that we had a good life, we had good jobs, we could go on holiday when we felt like it, what a bind it would be with additional ties etc...it was my way of dealing with the disappointment.

Now I have two DC's which was a surprise to my parents as they felt that we had left it too late and wouldn't be providing them with grandchildren. I'd only ever confided in one work friend that I'd being trying to conceive, as he'd told me about yet another grandchild on the way and I'd blubbed as I was so jealous of them!

Your best friend may be so wrapped up in her own little world that she may have no idea how offensive the repetitive nature of her conversation is. You have been remarkably patient to have not been rude before!

NarkedRaspberry Good point, and this is why just listening is probably the best policy. She has said that she is in two minds about it, but like you say, if there is a fertility issue that might not go down well.

She has told me that her DH is always saying 'lets make a baby', and he's not just talking about sex! That would be horrible for her if she really isn't up for it though.

I don't get why you are offended to be honest. She is not saying your life is like that, just that she thinks hers will be.

And let's face it, for the majority of us it's probably pretty true isn't it? Knackering, stressful, shortage of cash, children always coming first - all those things are pretty much part of being parents. The only problem is that you have to actually be a parent in
Order to realise that the benefits far outweigh the negatives.

Yep, sounds as though she's just confiding in you, as friends do.

Might be different if she kept telling you she doesn't want kids because she thinks YOUR life looks shite, but she isn't.

I feel for anyone being pressured against their wishes about kids, whether that be being pressured to have them or not to have them. I think she just needs you to carry on being a good friend (and you sound like a very good friend) and supporting her.

Yes YABVU. Not really sure why it offended you so much, are you? Did it touch a nerve or something?

Yes, it did touch a nerv a little, as I have already pointed out. But then I wouldn't keep going on to her about how I would hate to be childless because of x,y or z. That might piss her off. Saying that, I have admitted to BU and being a nobber over this already.

I can totally understand why it's pissing you off to have her spend her time with you going on about how children ruin your life. Maybe the next time she sets off you could say that she has to work out what's right for her just as you worked out what's right for you when you chose to have DC. It might rein her in a bit

To be fair the whole world is centered on how having children is the best thing ever, you don't need to talk about how you would hate to be childless, the world is doing it for you. According to TV/magazines/websites/people on the street having children

-lets you into a world you 'can never know' otherwise

• is the most fulfilling thing ever, far more fulfilling than anything else you can ever do

-makes you more important than people without children. Having a child is often considered something which you gives you entitlement to special consideration and support -makes you a martyr sacrificing all for the benefit of another, thus entitling you to the special consideration above and meaning that childless people can never ever again complain around you that they are tired/poor/busy as of course you are more tired, have less money and are busier as you have a child.

Is it any wonder people who choose not to or cannot have children find themselves defending their childless status and justifying themselves.
I have been TTC for 9 years, we have a good income and are able to do stuff we wouldn't be able to so easily with a child for example go to the cinema multiple times a week, travel widely for example however if we discuss this with friends with children we get the attitude that we shouldn't discuss this because they can't do this, however we are expected to listen to stories about their life with children which is fine but surely they should also listen to us in return.

I think I would just smile and agree with your friend, there are advantages to not having children and they are not necessarily outweighed by the disadvantages, infact from a pre child logical point of view the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, having children is definitely a decision driven by biology not logic!

whilst it was grating she working through her own issues
its not about you or your son.at all
smile and leave her to it, all that protesting will wear her downget her tired and she will stop.hopefuly

Agreed sandberry but most people are clued up enough to realise that the media is full of shite. In fact, if anything I think people are under far less pressure to marry and have a family these days. Maybe that's easy for me to say though, as I'm a parent - but not married.

I agree, don't take it too personally. I doubt she means to make any comment about your lifestyle, she's probably not thinking about that at all.

I guess I can see how it might seem a little insensitive to you, so might be worth saying something if she's making you feel bad, no need to be rude though.

It sounds like she is overcompensating. She sounds rather unhappy tbh.

I hear this a lot from friends - early 20s and I suspect would like children but it is just not financially viable yet.

Having kids does ruin some peoples lives. Some people would rather not have them. I don't think she is saying your life is ruined, but it would be for her.
I have a friend who doesn't want kids because she likes the standard of living her and her husband has, the freedom they have. She has told me this. I respect her choice. She repects mine to ha e kids. Neither is right or wrong just different.

She might be inviting you to tell her the upsides of having children? Maybe she is going on and on about it in a negative way because she wants to hear what the positive side of having children is as well and hopes that you can oblige!

She probably isn't aware that you're financially strapped at the moment and is just thinking of the financial downsides for herself. You have to admit having a baby at e.g. 40 is a much bigger disruption than if you have one at e.g. 25. Yes, you earn more money but you probably have a more established career, are more used to your child-free lifestyle, have more responsibilities, no parents to help etc.

So she's probably not comparing herself to you directly but thinking about the specific downsides for her as an older mother (from what you say she sounds around 40 if it's coming close to make-or-break time on having children).

I agree with sandberry - the insidious thing about the current media obsession with motherhood is that until you have kids you can't see that it's 'full of shite'. Up to that point, there's very little about the 'alternative', as any woman without children is, it's insinuated, either selfish, career-obsessed, unlovable, unnatural or tragic, and it's hard to have a conversation aloud that doesn't risk labelling yourself as one of those. But by the time you're in your 30s there's a lot to be disrupted, and it's not always as simple as just leaving it to nature. Clearly she trusts you enough to be honest about her confusion - I wouldn't take it as a criticism of your own situation at all.

As a childless woman of 40, I hear a lot of stuff from the media about how my life is meaningless, selfish and pathetic. Have you seen the obituaries of Maeve Binchey? Gah.

Wriggletto thanks for pointing out it's all bollocks. Watching my DSis and DFs become mums, and reading out motherhood on here, make me realise that being a mum - or not - has pluses and minuses.

OP I'm sure your friend isn't judging your choice.

I don't think you were BU, I think you just reacted to listening to her constantly voicing her opinions in a way that comes across as de-valuing your choices in life.

I have a friend exactly like this and I sympathise completely. She bangs on constantly about pregnant women and families with children, having made the choice not to have kids herself.

I cannot listen to it anymore as it is now coming across as rude when she demeans the choices of others, and I've distanced myself from her. I will be telling her exactly why, when we next meet.

I suggest you back off a bit from seeing her if it makes you feel this way, or tell her honestly how her comments are making you feel.

Well I can certainly understand her reasons and I think they make a lot of sense. I am a parent, but just have one child and I won't have any more because of the impact it would have on my lifestyle. I don't think I'd be banging on about it the way she seems to though, not unless I was pushed into defensiveness by others questioning my choice (which has happened and I don't doubt it has happened to her).

But if I were you, if I were truly happy with my own decisions and the choices I'd made, I can't see why you would feel so offended, unless perhaps you do have doubts or regrets.