To think £31500 pa is less than average wage?

[Elderwand]

That's it, I work as a nurse in the Nhs, I'm 33. , just thought at this stage of my life I would be earning more. (unhappy & bitter) have 2 young DD, So career change at the mo would be difficult.

Dontmindifido "Another thing that I have realised given the OP's age - this is the stage when 'high flyers' start taking off in their careers and the differences start getting large - a lot of people who in their early 30s start earning £80k+ spent their 20's earning £20-30k - even up to £40k doesn't feel that much richer than £28k, a friend earning that has a slightly bigger car and a slightly bigger flat, so someone in the public sector might not feel that different in wages/standard of living to friends who are destined for great things - perhaps looking at the stupid long hours the high flyers have to put in during their 20s and thinking "oh, I wouldn't work those hours for an extra £10k", or even thinking "god, I earn more than them but get to be home a couple of hours earlier", but then suddenly the payoff for that work happens for some around the early 30s and those people aren't earning £10k extra, they are earning £50k extra, and they aren't 'a little bit better off' they are 'minted'."

Exactly. Exactly. I had a discussion along these lines with my very good friend, who is a teacher, as is her DH. She had made a few slightly snippy comments relating to "minted" and the woeful lot of the British teacher. She has completely forgotten about the frankly potty hours I put in during our 20's and the year I got bollocked by my company for having 25 days additional leave owing on top of my annual leave allowance because I'd got so many days in lieu by working weekends, cos I wanted promotion.
She worked her 40 weeks, and still does, yet seems slightly mystified by the income gap because when we graduated she was on more than me.

Lizzie, your getting the private sector a bit confused with patsy and Edina!

Come off it, I don't agree with knocking the public sector but it dosent help to perpetuate these myths.

The vast majority of public sector workers do not get mags, team building weekends, champagne brunches and the like.

I'm sure these jobs exist but I'd rather have the money in my pay or pension to be fair. As for a team building weekend with some of my ex colleagues I would rather boil my head. It's hardly a perk.

I earn significantly more than £31,500, live more than an hour outside London, and yet as a single parent with a full time job (paying for childcare for 2 DCs of school age), I am always in debt.

IMO talk of "average wage" is meaningless. If you want to have a nice - not extravagant - standard of living, I think you need to be earning at least £100k. By nice standard of living I mean: be able to afford to rent a house with 3 bedrooms in south of England outside London; eat well at home without worrying about grocery bills; have one proper family holiday a year (i.e. 2 weeks away abroad in school holiday time); occasional family meal out, say once every 6 weeks; occasional family treat such as trip to cinema; buy clothes from nice high street shops such as Hobbs, Whistles, etc; be able to run own car of say 3-5 years old; have a little slush fund (rather than credit card) to deal with occasional domestic disaster such as plumbing problem, freezer packing up, etc.

And if you want to educate 2 DCs privately without bursaries, scholarships etc., add another £100k to your income requirement.

Like the OP, I expected that at this stage of my life (mid 30s), I would earn enough to afford this lifestyle. I don't. My parents had relatively modest careers as civil servants and earned less than I do now, yet I had a much cushier childhood than my DCs are having. Times change I guess. No point moping about it. There are very few really wealthy people out there and the ones I know are no happier than me and my DCs - if anything they seem rather unhappy. So I count our blessings and try not to compare fortunes. I did win £9.60 on the lottery this week...

Boffin things like that are very rare in the private sector. It is totally disingenuous to list them as if they would be the norm.

Peppin I completely agree with your assessment that you need around £100k income to have that kind of comfortable existence in the SE.

I earn well but as others have said I spent every weekend of my 20s studying and sitting exams while my friends were pleading with me to go away for weekends etc. I also spent 4 years at university not in the UK which was a huge outlay.

I also have none of the "feel good factor" from my job which is why I assume many nurses, teachers etc chose their careers? My job is challenging and stressful but I know that I am not changing lives or helping people etc. I am also trapped working within the M25 and the ridiculous cost that entails. It was a choice I made and thought through at the time, surely OP did the same?

No it isn't. I earn a little more than that. I am
older than you. I made choices to live where I am, not to commute, not go work stupid hours. It seems like a bargain to me. Would I like more? Yes. But other things matter as much.

Peppin that does describe my lifestyle on an income of below 100k. Ours varies because of DH but it is less than 100k

Elder I think alot of people your age feel the same. Its just not a great time to have a young fmaily and work etc...

if its any consolation DH lost 6 grand a year due to credit crunch, company stopped OT and shift work and is now on under 20 grand with no pay rise for about 4 years! They have been forced as a vastly reduced team to take on lots more work and are worked into the ground - so alot more work and stress for 6 grand less a year, meaning we barely got a re mortgage this year!

In normal circs he should be on your wage by now - and we would live very comfortably on your wage, as it stands we are living hand to mouth!

Your wage is very good; i did think it was too high for a nurse on an AFC wage

Latara I dont think £31,500 is too high for an AFC Nurse as the Band 6 pay scale ranges from £25,528 to £34,189 so applies to a lot of Band 6 Nurses, one of which I am. Of course I would love more money - wouldnt we all, but I think its a decent wage.

I lived in the cotswolds and it does distort your view. Can think of quite a few friends from posh backgrounds who are bemoaning their reduced means who are living to a standard most non cotswolders couldn't dream of. YABU. That's a pretty decent salary. The problem is unrealistic expectations. Everybody can't earn 70k that's an absolutely massive wage and far more than anybody needs to live on.

£70k "far more than anyone needs to live on"???

In the far north maybe. But £70k is less than £4,000 a month after tax and NI. Cost of a 3 bed house rental in home counties is about £1,500-£2,000. I spend £300 a month on petrol (as I live in an area where property is much cheaper than where I work). So you're down to max. £2,500 after rent, then deduct petrol/travel and it's £2,200. Childcare for me (2 DCs in school) is £600 a month. So down to £1,400. Loan repayment for car (3 year old Ford) is £250 a month, so down to £1,150. Utility bills, broadband, home and car insurance and council tax knock off another £600 a month, leaving £550. And £550 is about what the monthly grocery shopping would cost if I was shopping without an eye on keeping the prices down (I cook all meals from scratch, we eat meat 3 times a week and drink about 3 bottles of wine a week).

I haven't allowed for clothes in that budget, or any pension provision, or any luxuries such as holidays, meals out, etc, In fact I don't earn as much as £70k. My DCs and I do not live an extravagant lifestyle. As you can see from the above, even on £70k, we would probably be in debt. To say £70k is more than anyone needs to live on is an absurd statement.

Sorry miscalculated after childcare - should have said down to £1600 a month. Even so. There's not much left is there?!

Yes, £70k in SE - if you don't have private schools and ponies is a nice, comfortable middle class lifestyle, but not what most people would consider 'rich'.

I am not sure they are that rare - it entirely depends where you work and what you do, how many of them you will manage to bag. Some people do very nicely around here, and the recession appears to be passing them by.

jeeeze OP, You earn loads more than me and I am in my early 40s!
I do get the impression from being on here that my wage/job is considered terrible though. I am not even in the mid£20K

That's clearly where we are going wrong, far too many ponies!

"should have said down to £1600 a month"

that's an awful lot of money to take home a month. My childcare bill is roughly the same as yours and I take home just over half of what you do!
I do have a husband with a similar wage to mine but even so our combined wage is considerably less than £70k - we would love it if it were more!

Actually, i coyuldn't live my present life on 70K so it's daft to say it's more than anyone needs, completely daft. Depends entirely on life and choices.

It's all relative, isn't it? it's just daft to talk about what is enough or alot because we all have different opinions.

Don't/BagofHolly I am SO feeling the early 30s income gap right now. The sad thing is I worked my butt off ever since uni, 60hr weeks, weekends, did it because I loved it, but never really realised just how bad the max pay was compared to the career choices my friends were making. 2 dcs in, a credit crubch and a boss who's shat all over me and it's making me properly miserable.

70k far more than anybody needs to live on!

Oh please!

Wow. I think there are a lot of people on this thread who need to get in the real world. £70k isn't enough. Hahhahahahahah. Oh dear me. Get a grip. Since when were 'private schools and ponies' the accepted 'norm'?!!

OP - I earn £21,000. My DH earns £14,000. Child on the way, big mortgage. We manage but we budget. We don't receive any tax credits etc at the moment. I would imagine with 2 kids (and possibly a man on the scene? Or not on the scene?) you are on more than us.

We just count our blessings every day that we're healthy.

No-one NEEDS 70k, what a ridiculous idea. If people need 70k, what happens to the millions and millions of people in this country who earn far far less than that?

I'm only working part time at the moment, only making about 12k, I live in London zone 2 and it's fine. Not great, obviously, but it's fine. I don't have any kids though.

Good job so many people do earn over 70K otherwise the economy and the tax man would be in even deeper shit than they are already!

If you don't have the imagination to see why anyone would need more than 70K then I'm not surprised you 're a million miles away from earning it!

I do think it takes a special kind of losing sight of reality to think that £70k is not a good wage to live on.

Totally understand that lots of people have lots of debt, maybe the more you earn the more debt you have? I just don't understand why anyone would put themselves in a position where they have a mortgage they can't actually afford on a wage that high!