To not want DS(6) to sleep in the dorms at the youth hostel

[rookiemater]

DH and DS away for a few days of camping. As the weather is meant to be unpredictable DH said they may go to the youth hostel if its too wet.
I checked a few ones in the area and said that most seemed to have beds available but wasn't too sure if there were family rooms - they have booked a room for 2 for some of the nights.

DH said that they could get a room in a dorm and DS would sleep on the top bunk but instinctively I don't like the idea of it. I don't think I am particularly PFB or overly stranger danger conscious but DH is quite a heavy sleeper and the thought of DS sleeping in a room with strangers worried me.

DH has said they won't do it if I'm not happy with it but I'm wondering if I am just being overly precious so thought I would ask what people think.

Ds (8) & I do an annual historical activities weekend thing at a C14th castle.

I always request a shared room, not a dorm, because ds is liable to be up at silly o'clock disturbing anyone else trying to sleep off too much mead.

It certainly wouldn't occur to me that he'd be at risk in a dorm with me, though - in the highly unlikely event of someone trying to abduct or molest him, I'd be less than 6' away. I suppose he could theoretically be pounced on on his way to the loo, but short of roping him to me or dh until he's 18...

No, I really wouldn't worry OP.

An historical activities weekend sounds brilliant - where do you do that I think DS would love that.

Sashh will look into farm stays for other trips

Is that Warwick, raven? Their annual event is terrific fun.

I think maybe some of the confusion here is because there are at least two types of hostel in the uk - Independent and YHA. I ran an Independent until quite recently and we didn't take kids unless a dorm was booked out for sole use by the family/group. This was mostly because a lot of adults don't want to find themselves sharing with children, not the other way round! Independents are just that, and we set our own rules depending on the business we want to attract: some will be more family-friendly and some more group orientated. We never bothered getting HSE to assess us for under-5s to stay because we never took them, for example.

YHA are, on the other hand, all about families and kids - the Y is for Youth after all - and if you book a dorm bed there you can certainly expect there will be under-18s with their parents in the dorm with you. Security tends to be better than in some independents, there are usually curfews (which we didn't have) and coming in drunk is seriously frowned upon. I'd be generally much happier with my kids staying at a YHA than at an unknown independent, and I think the risk from another hosteller is vanishingly small.

But I would also be very careful indeed about bedbugs!!

I have stayed in lots of YHAs and other hostels and never met a bedbug!

Other people will usually try to be quite and considerate but it depends a bit on the location, dorm size and people you happen to be sharing with. You could find that no-one wants to get up before seven, or that there's a group doing some long-distance challenge event who get up en masse at four. Then there are the snorers, the six a.m. plastic bag rustlers and the people who have no awareness of how loud their voice is or that doors can be closed quietly. Much luck of the draw.

Quick update from the OP here.

DH and DS stayed in the campsite last night but it has been flooded and their tent was the only one left at 4pm, they packed up with the intention of coming home but checked at the youth hostel and as it has space available are staying there. I did not ask if they are in dorms or a room so I don't know.

Now I have to say I'm more worried about them coming back with bed bugs !

there's a HUGE difference between countryside yha's and city centre hostels.

in somewhere full of hikers and campers like the lake district or somewhere else rural there will be other children and families, curfew and lights-out times strictly observed and no bedbugs. most adults in those types of hostels will be up and out early for long days in the hills and probably sleep earlier and up earlier than your average 6yr old.

in a city centre there will be students and young gap-year kids, lots of alcohol and crashing around at midnight and possibly bedbugs.

I disagree with posters here. YANBU if it is a shared dorm and DH is in a different bed. Substitute DS for a bag of irreplaceable diamonds. Would you put them in 1 bed in a shared room with strangers and then sleep in another bed and expect them to there in the morning.? A tent is different because if someone broke in I would expect your dp to wake up. I would not place my diamonds in a shared bedroom thus I would not my DS

I wouldn't be too stressed about them sharing a room, esp if ds is on the top bunk. But I've stayed in a lot of hostels (female alone in mixed rooms as well) and never had any problems. So i wouldn't feel the need to dwell on it too much.

"I disagree with posters here. YANBU if it is a shared dorm and DH is in a different bed. Substitute DS for a bag of irreplaceable diamonds. Would you put them in 1 bed in a shared room with strangers and then sleep in another bed and expect them to there in the morning.? A tent is different because if someone broke in I would expect your dp to wake up. I would not place my diamonds in a shared bedroom thus I would not my DS"

And the gold medal for the most stupid post ever made on mumsnet goes to the very aptly named Julesnobrain.

It always makes me laugh when people compare a DC to an inanimate object! Diamonds are not going to alert you to a problem - the DC will, especially when he is on the bunk above which can't be reached unless you stand on the one below. I would certainly be happy to have diamonds on the top bunk if they shout 'help,daddy' if touched!!

Cross posted with seeker!

Really Seeker! why is it stupid??. Parents perform risk assessments every day, a useful tool is to de personalise specifically so that one does not consider the the abilities Exotic seems to have imbued into his/her children and because Children are infinitely more precious than any irreplaceable object it enables a pragmatic platform for self questioning "would I?"

For instance not to 'family bash' a particular family here but if Seeker went on holiday, put your passports and holiday money on a table in your apartment and went out to dinner with the door ajar. If those objects were removed I am willing to bet 99 out of 100 people would have little sympathy and say silly Seeker. In fact I am willing to bet 99 out of a 100 people would not consider doing it as it is blatantly stupid.

Exotic - happy to amuse. The reason inanimate objects are useful starting measure is precisely because I do not think one should place the onus of risk on your child's defence abilities. The OP's child here is 6. You are saying there is no risk because your child would wake up and alert others. Not an unreasonable belief but naive and flawed. Google extremely sad case of Caroline Dickinson.

If we revert back to the OP's question. The OP clearly has unease about a child of 6 sharing a dorm with strangers. If I remove his presumed ability to fend off attack (ie consider him inanimate) and then consider value (irreplaceable) you then have a not unreasonable conclusion. That said OP I have stayed in hostels myself many times and met many interesting lovely people but at 6 years old I would consider a shared dorm an unacceptable risk.

Finally it makes me extremely happy to award Seeker my first ever Doughnut . Actually it may be biscuit but I am calling it a doughnut. One of the delights of MN is the ability to ask and receive advice. Garnering opposing opinions is par of the course, however Seekers complete inability to articulate in any other way why she/he disagrees with me other than to pick on my user name is the playground equivalent of sticking your tongue out and saying yah boo you smell. Seeker may I suggest you stay off MN until you grow up and can provide interesting commentary / debate rather than childish name calling.

It is stupid, apart from anything else, because it it based on the assption that there are as many predatory paedophiles who would abduct a child in circstances where the chances of getting away with it are approaching zero as there are opportunist thieves or even non thieves who give way to temptation at the sight of an unattended bag of diamonds.

I have been using hostels for decades and I won't use a dorm!!!

I remember many years ago I took my diamonds out in the pram. Lots of people (mainly elderly) leaned over my pram and said how beautiful my diamonds were!

When I got to the supermarket obviously I was looking on the shelves for what I needed to buy, and I bent down to pick up a tin of something from the bottom shelf. I then glanced back at my precious diamonds and they were gone! I'd had my eye off them for 20 seconds at most and that's all it took.

The police were sympathetic but said I really shouldn't have taken my diamonds out in full view of everyone

Do people really replace child with diamonds in their risk assessments How odd.

The diamonds analogy is incredibly silly. Really, just ridiculous.

OP: Your DS will find the whole thing an adventure. His dad will be very close by and there's really nothing to worry about. The dorm may even be completely empty apart from the two of them. We used to go on youth hostel holidays when I was a kid, and we often ended up in really quite empty hostels. Some of them were quite bizarre, some were lovely; but it's all fun.

You really live like that Jules? In a constant state of terror and suspicion?
Relentlessly afraid that someone will steal your diamonds, and if only you stay on high alert the evil will pass over you?
How truly horrible for you and those around you.

Seeker, it is not stupid as it is not based on a presumption of predarty paed's. It is based on would you allow a stranger access to a precious object (Diamonds was an anology everyone - replace it with what you will), when you cannot presume in this case that object has the ability for defense.

It enables as a starter quick and easy assessment. Then of course you do consider age of child, sensibility of child etc. For instance I allow my 'diamonds' aged 9 and 5 to walk the dog on their own (together) around the block past ..gasp.. a busy main road and a park out of sight. Why ?? because part of being a parent is giving children confidence and empowering them to go into the world as adults.

I do not live in fear and suspicion but I am aware of how quickly in a split second a situation can turn nasty and I balance each situation between the desire for my children to have freedom and the need to keep them safe. I stayed in a hostel sleeping on a roof with a mix of 50 people in Israel and a pervert attacked me in front to all in the night. Did he suceed no?. He got a nasty bite from me and more from chaps who were then woken up and came to my aid. But literally it was one second asleep, one second with him trying to get into my sleeping bag. It was a one off incident in nearly a year of travelling and didn't put me off hostelling, equally when I had my handbag stolen from the front seat of my car in the spilt second whilst I was putting DS into his seat in the back of the car at Tescos it did not put me off shopping :-)

The OP's original post was is she being unreasonable to not want her 6 year old in share dorm/ riskher 6 year old being accessed in the night by a stranger. My answer was no and I shared the methodolgy I might use to come to that conslusion.

That does not make me odd. It means I would not rely on my 6 year old's ability to defend themselves in the extremly unlikely event someone tried to access them and because the effects of that access could be so devastating then on the balance of risk I would not accept them. Had the OP said her DS was 12 then I might think the balance of risk would swing the otherway.

Finally folks to those who presume the OP's DH would hear any disturbence re OP's DS in the night. Other posters have discussed here how much do you hear in the night? A friend got burgled and they took jewellery from her bedroom while she slept. I was pretty amazed and must I admit think I would have woken up. However DH points out he comes to bed after me and I am ZZZ'ing away and don't wake up.

All I can say is that it makes even less sense now.

Thanks Jules you helped to articulate what I was thinking but finding very hard to put into words not so much through the diamond analogy but by sharing your story of being attacked in a hostel.

Yes its highly unlikely that someone would be in a dorm with DH and DS and want to do such a thing but were that unlikely event to happen then as both DS and DH would be asleep at the time it's hard to predict what their exact reactions would be, DS for example could be mute with terror, or even if he made a noise DH might be too sound asleep to hear it or perhaps think it was a night terror which DS sometimes has and give it a couple of minutes before he roused himself.

Yes if DS was older my thoughts would be different, even if he was 8 I think I would have a different view, but the fact remains he is 6. I also think that generally I do let DS take age appropriate risks so he plays with his friends on our cul de sac - I suppose I could say oh well he might come across a stranger with intent there, but the big difference to me is that DS is wide awake at that point and a wide awake responsible adult is very close as well.

I guess it is all personal choice at the end of the day.

So you let him play out in an area where there are moving cars, but don't want h to sleep in a youth hostel dormitory because it's too risky?

Yes, it is personal choice- but some choices are just plain wrong.