Shafilia Ahmed

[thebody]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!' !!!!!!!!!'nnnnnnn. Why r u blocking posts

I think differing opinions, fine, and sometimes you're right, it's better to argue something out than just throw a strop.

But personally I think this thread is becoming increasingly dodgy.

Ahh I don't know

I do prefer to see the posts of certain people left where they are so that everyone can see exactly what they're like if you know what I mean.

I know exactly what you mean, yes. And I take the point.

I suppose the only issue is people who read them and think they're right because they've not been deleted, or they're acceptable views. Obviously mass deleting isn't a perfect solution to that, but I thought lemarch had it right about there being a context, not just a one-off.

Unbelievable - I have been deleted because someone has thrown their toys out of their pram. Deleted for saying too know far more about arranged marraiges than someone who chooses to think that being in an arranged marraige isn't the worst thing that could happen to a child who comes to them because they are worried about it.

Having grown up in a culture where everything was very strict and having known many many people who have had miserable lives due to arranged marraiges I'll say again, arranged marraige where there is no choice/free will
Is wrong
Introductions where there is free will are different.

So yes lovebunny I have plenty of knowledge and experience of arranged marraiges - certainly more than someone who doesn't have any personal experience of it as if you did you wouldn't think the way you do.

some people have miserable marriages whether they're arranged or choose their partners themselves. i'm not advocating arranged marriage for everyone, just saying that not all arranged are forced and not all arranged are bad - and i did link introduced with arranged.

now that the s a case has reached a conclusion, schools will probably be given or develop procedures specifically to address young people who feel they are being forced into marriage, and more easily available support services will develop for when those cases arise.

If someone is forced to marry someone they don't wan to that is bad. They may put up with it and make the most of a bad situation but that doesn't change the fact forcing anyone into something as big as marriage is wrong on so many levels.

forcing.
arranging.
introducing.

not the same things.

There is a fine line between them though as has been shown by posters on this thread. Doesn't change the fact it a school aged girl comes to you worried that she is being made to marry when she doesn't want to/doesn't feel ready or whatever then for her that is the worst thing that could happen and to try to compare it to other things or anything else is wrong. A teacher in that situation should listen and then ensure she gets the help needed.

Just read this bit in a news report:

But Shafilea?s compliance was not necessary for her parents? carefully laid plan. Her father had been to a doctor complaining of insomnia and been prescribed powerful sleeping pills, the court heard.

These were ground up and put in a drink of fruit juice the next morning. The semi-conscious 16-year-old was taken to Manchester Airport with her family for the flight to Pakistan, where her parents had arranged for her to marry a cousin in the village of Uttam on the country?s north-eastern frontier

How is it possible to take a semi-conscious teenager through customs and onto a plane? Surely airport staff would - should - notice?

I clearly have a good idea about arranged marraiges - you clearly have not. Introductions to people with free choice is fine and can work well. 'arranging' marraiges where the people who are going to marry have no choice or feel pressurised is not fine. Be thankful you didn't grow up with the expectation and pressure of arranged marraige.

I don't think it was Shafilia's non-compliance to marry the ageing cousin that made the parents into the monsters they are. Such people capable of the cold, calculated abuse they piled on her, ending in her murder, were probably twisted human beings anyway. I don't for a minute think that if it wasn't for the non-compliance they were very sweet and loving parents generally. That would suggest that any normal parent who was let down by their child (in their opinion) could turn into violent killers.

Yes, absolutely blis.

I think it's the other way around, that people who were capable of forcing their daughter, and going on with it despite what she did, must already have been twisted human beings.

Feenie - if the flight was early in the morning or late at night, they would be less suspicious. The parents probably had a whole host of cover stories about her being very tired or under the weather.

Going back to why Shafilea's teachers were unable to help her - teachers in situations like this are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. How many stories have you heard containing outrage that a teacher has tried to help a student (usually with an unwanted pregnancy) behind their parents' back? Former teaching and school administration colleagues have told me several stories of girls, not just from South Asian backgrounds, being abruptly withdrawn from school at 16, to be married, despite the girls themselves expressing other plans and ideas. The first port of call always has to be the parents, who will swear blind that the girl wished to leave school and marry, then refuse to co-operate further, sometimes using racism or ignorance arguments, but often just telling the school authorities to butt out.

and agrees with LRD.

BoneyBackJefferson

I see your point, but I have to disagree.

My opinion stands.

Fuck me, it's been standing for nearly a week.

It must be knackered

True.

Very true.

(Kind of you to offer BTW but I must decline).

Shall we just go straight for the cigarette?