Shafilia Ahmed

[thebody]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!' !!!!!!!!!'nnnnnnn. Why r u blocking posts

If I heard a teacher was prepared to act on their own views that were so very contrary to safeguarding policies in most schools then yes I would be gunning for dismissal and also ensuring they couldn't take up post elsewhere.

I read the Guardian report this morning. One teacher in particular was concerned; on one occasion Shafilia went to school covered in bruises; the teacher informed social services. A social worker talked to Shafilia, who said everything was basically OK, and the case was closed. There were other incidents, such as the bleach-drinking incident. Her father had a history of violence.

To my mind, the authorities failed her because they ignored all the signs. At the very least they should have been keeping an eye on events, rather than closing the case. Of course the girl would say "everything's OK" - she was frightened of her parents. I think people who say that the authorities did all they could and it was her parents who failed her are astonishingly blase. Social services can (and do) take children away from their parents if they feel the child is at risk. The fact that they didn't do anything in this case is extremely worrying.

Worse, when she went missing, the police seemed not to have bothered to investigate the possibility that she was murdered (given all the earlier signs, this surely should have ranked as a high probability). The only reason the case came to court seems to have been the result of a decision by a new and more proactive public prosecutor in the north of England.

I don't think that "accept that western culture is going to be part of your life" means accepting everything about western culture. It is quite acceptable for a parent to not want their children to blindly copy certain aspects, like drunkeness or promiscuity. And I don't buy the "everyone is doing it, that's life" argument, no I don't think they are.

What is not acceptable (to put it mildy) is to kill your children over it, and the sentence rightly reflects that. I think it should have been life with no chance of release.

I was a bit when I saw the father's first wife on TV yesterday, saying that he was probably put under pressure by his wife to kill their daughter. I'm not an expert, but I would have thought that whatever things it's possible for a spouse to put pressure on, killing your own child in cold blood wouldn't be one of them.

Good for you Stewie

That does no read as a personal attack imo at all.

The authorities failed her because they ignored all the signs. ... I think people who say that the authorities did all they could and it was her parents who failed her are astonishingly blase.

Yes.

The fact that a child belongs to a culture which accepts the violent coercion of girls into sexual subjugation does NOT make the professionals who failed her 'sensitive', it makes them stupid. To put it mildly.

Pasting my own post:

"Shafilea ran away multiple times and eventually registered as being homeless. She admitted her parents beat her, stole money from her bank account and would likely force her into an arranged marriage.

"After months of being homeless, Shafilea returned home, and the family left for a holiday in Pakistan in February, 2003. During this trip, Shafilea?s parents introduced her to a potential husband. While in Pakistan, Shafilea drank bleach and seriously damaged her throat. Her parents claimed this cry for help was simply an accident. (They said she thought it was pop - surely nobody believed this?) Once she was back in Warrington, Shafilea only left the house for medical treatment until she started her A-Levels at college in September."

A 16-year-old ran away repeatedly from a home in which she was beaten, robbed and threatened. She chose months of homelessness over returning to her family. She permanently injured herself in preference to being married off.
I don't see this as minor concern. Do you?

I still don't see how teachers could have done any more than they did. They reported to SS, and it seems that Shafilea left school then moved to college to do her A levels.

just letting you know i'm still here...keep going...

you know, it isn't in a teacher's role to undermine parents' reasonable plans for their children. a girl being concerned about marriage isn't necessarily the same as her being forced to marry. teachers aren't in a position to intervene in pupils' lives left right and centre, imposing their own cultural expectations at will. that would be intolerant, in some cases racist, and just wrong.

Her murder has nothing to do with religion. It is to do with village culture back in Pakistan. A lot of these uneducared Pakistanis Indiand Bangladeshis are more concerned what their village 'back home' will think of their promiscuous daughter. This is the culture of Hindus, Sikhs, and Hindus from villages and those that are uneducated. The next generation do not hold thus farmer view.

Social services/police like to create ethnic minority/honour killing specialist groups to show they are doing something. A non South Asian will Never understand this culture fully. And most south asians are unwilling to join these groups and officially infiltrate the mosques/elders meetings. No government body/legislation can tackle these problems. The next generation will need to ensure this backward and dangerous mentality is eradicated.

If you asked a south asian grandparent and parents, it would surprise you how many would say poor parents. I had a friend whose parents told her you are lucky we did not honour kill you when we found out about your boyfriend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They were genuine in saying she was lucky to have such lovely parents who wouodn't ever dream of killing her. Insane.

And takibg money from children is normal in these cultures. Tge girl should just go to school and come hone to study/cook/clean. Why would she neeed money?!?!

^All the time you attack peoples cultures you make sure they don?t trust to ask for help.
A girl who does ask for help brings more bad things on her race as shes not seen as a girl in trouble with a bad family - shes seen as a girl with a problem with her race and culture - coming to a culture who want to get her to dam her whole culture to get help - its not just her culture who tells her to choose sides.^

if i'm understanding this correctly, i think its a really good point. the s a case is being used, including by the judge, as an indication that all families from a similar background would take the same approach, which it is almost certain they would not.
it's important when working in a multi-cultural and multi-faith situation, to take other people's world views into account. assuming that your own way is right will just put people off, and lead them not to trust you with their problems.

lovebunny - with respect, you are misguided at best. I think you would serve your students well to keep your opinions to yourself and just follow child protection policy.

And takibg money from children is normal in these cultures. Tge girl should just go to school and come hone to study/cook/clean. Why would she neeed money?!?!
'these cultures'?

lovebunny some of us have been fighting against right-wing reactionary misogyny for a long time, you can dress it up as respecting a culture but it isn't - in fact you come across as an apologist. Women and girls who are being oppressed for whatever reason don't need your brand of understanding.

I think it's quite likely that any child with a problem of any kind, would only approach a teacher that they saw as friendly, understanding and non judgmental anyway.

I think we can all look back to our school days and still remember who we would and certainly wouldn't approach.

I certainly can and I left school 27yrs ago.

Anyway, of course some of stupid people will look at a case like this and make generalisations about a particular culture of religion, and they're great fodder for the edl etc.
But it does no one any favours at all to pretend that misogyny is an acceptable cultural norm when women the world over risk their lives daily for greater freedoms.

lovebunny I do think people from rural areas in south asia, who are uneducated, and must have an ego problem, and are uneducated mostly will sympathise with the parents.

I fully understand why, also. They would exclaim 'poor parents having such a wild girl who runs away, she drove them to murder!!!! He is just a taxi driver who works day and night for their education. He let her go study her A Levels after the bleach incident, and she ruined it! They forgave her after the shame of not marrying her first cousin in Pakistan!!!'

It is ridiculous. They over reacted to her 'wild ways'. These parents don't even let their daughters wear western clothes?! Let alone have boyfriends! Obviously she rebelled hugely

love bunny talking about old school south asian cultures.

lovebunny what you are posting on this thread goes against all the child protection training I have received.

I sincerely hope that this is personal opinion only.

Did Shafilia Ahmed have a job? I was wondering about the theft of her money by her parents. If all she did was go to school/college, and presumably her parents gave her no money (well they wouldn't if they were stealing from her) too.

Poor, poor, girl.

I'm so, so, so, so sorry that our politically correct, wishy washy liberal authorities didn't look out for you.

And I'm so glad that in the end justice was done.

RIP beautiful girl and RIP all the others young women all over the world for whom justice will never come.

MrsTerryPratchett: "In a situation where a girl had drunk bleach, it could be depression, it could be another MH issue, it could be that she is scared to death, it could be her family, it could be a boyfriend, it could be an accident, it could be something else. You have to find out and if you go in all guns blazing, you never know until it is too late. You need someone to trust you and talk to you. SWs aren't psychic."

I have some sympathy with the difficulty, and I couldn't do your job. Nonetheless, if a child has drunk bleach, then in a way it doesn't really matter whether it's a mental health issue or whether it's because she's scared to death, does it? You would want to keep a very close eye on that situation. I know someone who drank bleach accidentally and the damage was horrific and long-lasting. With Shafilia, other warning signs were there.

It reminds me of several other cases (Victoria Climbie, Baby P etc) where there just wasn't any joined up activity going on with the agencies. If you looked at all the evidence that different agencies have (ie social services, the school, the police) you can build up a compelling case that someone is being abused much more easily than if all these agencies act alone.

"Did Shafilia Ahmed have a job?" Yes, she was working part-time. She was saving up money to leave home, I think, but her parents took it from her.