Shafilia Ahmed

[thebody]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!' !!!!!!!!!'nnnnnnn. Why r u blocking posts

I think the judge raised a very valid point, they have chosen to live in a western country so you have to accept that western culture is going to have some impact upon your child as they grow up. It is up to the parents to find the right balance between accepting this and not forgetting their own culture and traditions. In this case it would seem the parents didn't do that and instead disliked the fact that their daughter was trying to become a part of the community in which she had been raised.

Arranged marriages I have no issue with, my only problem comes when someone is forced to do that when they dont want to. Nobody should be forced to partake in a religious practise which will have lasting effects on their life without consenting to it.

many people are making the mistake of conflating religious ideas and cultural ideas. They are not the same. The concept of murdering your daughter to keep your family honour is a cultural concept which is not enshrined in any religious doctrine at all.

There is another thread on 'In the News' btw, which was not initiated by someone drunk and/or illiterate.

'if a pupil came to me with concerns about marriage (which has happened) i would not immediately conclude that this was the worst thing that could happen to her. being rejected by your family might be worse. putting yourself about all over town while you look for a life partner might be worse. spending your life alone might be worse. the situation needs thinking through, without making an assumption that it will, in every case, be wrong. teachers and schools need strategies in place to address these issues without hysteria.'

lovebunny You make a lot of other good points in your post but I'm fairly by this. Really? Someone comes to you with concerns and you decide on their behalf that there are other things that are worse? If someone comes to you with concerns, it might have taken a lot of courage to do so. That person has the absolute right to say 'no, I don't want this,' and have people listen and support them in that. They surely have the intelligence to have weighed up what the worst situation for them is and then reached out for help. I'm sorry but I'm baffled by what you've written. Putting yourself all over town - yes, some people are engaged in destructive behaviour but there are tons of people going out to meet partners and, um, having, you know, fun. There are lots of people too who spend their life alone and are very fulfilled too.

I would be outraged if I knew that Shafilea had gone to a teacher, terrified and desperate to escape her situation and that teacher had decided that an arranged marriage was in her best interests, and that the girl might just not see that for herself yet. God how patriarchal and dangerous.

I was heartened to see the police press conference yesterday and hear the way the detectives were talking about the case, and recognising how Shafilea had been let down 10 years ago, but saying that a lot has been ,earned and she would have been treated differently now. The detectives seemed genuinely moved

I would be outraged if I knew that Shafilea had gone to a teacher, terrified and desperate to escape her situation and that teacher had decided that an arranged marriage was in her best interests, and that the girl might just not see that for herself yet. God how patriarchal and dangerous.

a teacher isn't in any position to decide at all. but teachers shouldn't immediately assume there is a problem because a person is uncertain about marriage. this is why teachers and schools need clearly defined strategies and guidelines. my personal beliefs about the harm caused by 'fun' might well influence my views - just as someone else's view of the situation might be influenced by all the 'fun' they'd been having for the past 20 years... to be fair to teachers and students, we need clarity. if a something similar to shafliea ahmed's case, if a girl presented afraid, and with a history of drinking bleach, social services and mental health workers would have been alerted.

an arranged marriage isn't necessarily wrong or bad. they operated here for a long time. there are some remnants - my friend married the boy chosen for her by her parents - both sets of parents favoured this and brought the children up to expect it. the young couple got together at the age of 21 and married some time later. they were white working class families. it wasn't called 'arranged' but it certainly was.

if a something similar to shafliea ahmed's case, if a girl presented afraid, and with a history of drinking bleach, social services and mental health workers would have been alerted

lost something there - sorry!

if a case something similar to s a's presented at the place i work, a girl afraid and with a history of drinking bleach...

Lovebunny, there is a huge difference between an arranged marriage and a forced marriage!

I got the impression OP is of the same ethnic background and feels the authorities were reluctant to intervene, despite Shafila's begging them for help. This has happened before and I remember reading the whole shameful story as it slowly emerged. it does happen. Like it or not. Reverse racism is just as lethal as the more overt kind.

I also felt OP has a daughter and is enraged by what this religion consider acceptable treatment of young women.

YY to everything said here. Sorry to whoever posted it, but I've forgotten your name.

It's unfair to dismiss the OP as a ranty drunk and mock her. Yes, she might have had a bit to drink. People do.

I still think I got the gist and it's worth debating.

It was garlicnuts

I think lovebunny's post recognises that there is a lot of difference between an arranged marriage, where the girl might feel uncertain, and a forced marriage, where she is terrified.

It seems that the father was quite westernised before he met and married the mother, who apparently held great sway in the household and who appears never to have integrated in any way since settling in England. As other posters have said: this is a cultural issue, not a religious one.

You chose to express your opinion as a teacher, Lovebunny, so you brought your profession into it. SGM attacked your professional responsibility not your personal character.

Thank you, limited. I hope OP does come back.

I wish people had more of an idea about what SWs face in these situations. I have been the person from SS who has to turn up at a home with worries about violence and try to get people to talk to her. I HAVE to respect and try to understand people's culture because if I am not seen to do it, no one will talk to me, everyone will shut down and I won't have any grounds to do anything until someone is dead or seriously hurt. I have to hope that the Imam or Elder will be supportive of my suggestions and recommendations because if not, I am fighting uphill.

In a situation where a girl had drunk bleach, it could be depression, it could be another MH issue, it could be that she is scared to death, it could be her family, it could be a boyfriend, it could be an accident, it could be something else. You have to find out and if you go in all guns blazing, you never know until it is too late. You need someone to trust you and talk to you. SWs aren't psychic.

There has been a note on my twins records since they were 13. It gives my permission to the gp to provide contraception if they are under age. In fact, they have not availed themselves and are sixteen in four weeks time.
People have had fun since time immemorial. They were locked up for years in institutions for it. Before that they were sent to relatives far away, before that, cast from the village (funny, the blokes never got sent away or institutionalised, but that's by the by). I sincerely hope Lovebunny you do not teach my dds. You see the reason they're like that, and haven't availed themselves of the contraception available, is that we talk, they know it's daft not to until they're ready (and marriage has nothing to do with it), it's not taboo. That is a far better way of doing things than saying it's wrong, it shouldn't happen.

'if a pupil came to me with concerns about marriage (which has happened) i would not immediately conclude that this was the worst thing that could happen to her. being rejected by your family might be worse. putting yourself about all over town while you look for a life partner might be worse. spending your life alone might be worse. the situation needs thinking through, without making an assumption that it will, in every case, be wrong. teachers and schools need strategies in place to address these issues without hysteria.'

"Putting yourself about all over town while you look for a life partner"?

I sincerely hope my kid's do not have teachers with this sort of attitude towards growing up and sexual relationships.

That's not a personal attack

She's calling into question your professional judgement as a teacher.

I haven't seen any insults and certainly non aimed at you personally lovebunny

as a teacher that would NOT be your decision to make - you would follow your schools safeguarding policy - thankfully

All the time you attack peoples cultures you make sure they don?t trust to ask for help.
A girl who does ask for help brings more bad things on her race as shes not seen as a girl in trouble with a bad family - shes seen as a girl with a problem with her race and culture - coming to a culture who want to get her to dam her whole culture to get help - its not just her culture who tells her to choose sides.