Or is my mother - paying for the wedding

[Ambivalence]

I know I am about to be flamed here.

Just had a nerve wracking telephone call from my mum. She and my late father were both born in india, and although I am a british born asian, she has very traditional ideas about culture and religion.

I am one of 4 daughters (also have a younger brother), and the first one to be getting married. She has been saving for our weddings since we were born as in indian tradition ( hindu punjabi), the brides parents bear the bulk of the wedding costs.

My fiance is dutch. He has one brother and his brother and my future SIL paid for their own wedding, as is normal in holland, the parents don't contribute anything.

I go to holland with him fairly regularly, to see his family, have known them for years. The parents are divorced, and the father has died ( his new wife got everything, so DF had no inheritance from his Dad).

My mother is now saying that she thinks it is unfair that DF's family are getting away with a "free" wedding, and haven't enquired into our customs or whether anything is expected from them. In most british asian weddings nowadays the couples parents both contribute, and I have seen this with my british asian friends.

She is going to holland in september to meet DF's mum, brother, SIL and their 3 for the first time. She is now saying that she is going to speak to his mum and ask her what she expects to contribute.

I am dreading the whole thing. Actually DF's mum is well off and could afford to help out, but it wouldn't occur to her. They are also under the impression my parents must be minted as they privately educated their kids ( unheard of in holland).

This is just going to be awful. DF just doesn't "get" where my mum is coming from, doesn't understand the cultural importance and obligations for my mum of doing a big wedding, and thinks she is being ridiculous.

Has anyone else negotiated this situation?

To not drip feed, although DF is lovely, and my family all love him, he is not at all financially astute - at 46, he has a grand total of about £2K in savings, no other assets. I was brought up to be a saver, got a mortagge when I was 25 and now have a lot of equity. DF gave up a £40K job in holland to move to be with me and now is earning a pittance ( although he is going for interviews, and I am feeling confident that he will get a £30K job soon). I will always out earn him. So far he is only contributing his half of the bills (£300/ month) and food etc. he says h won't contribute to the mortageg as that is just helping me with my equity - which annoys me as he is happy to live here, rent free ( it is a v nice central london flat!).

i don't have a lot saved up, as all goes in the mortage, service charges, roof repairs etc.

Would it be unreasonable after he gets a new job to make him pay "rent" and use that money as a contribution towards his part of the wedding stuff?

i really don't know what to do, i have tried talkign to him, but he just doesn't seem to want to listen, and I am trying to keep DF and my mum both happy.

Has anyone else been in this situation ?

ambi, I wasn't suggesting you were asking your parents for money, or criticizing them for giving it to you - please don't think that!

I just think you are (like all of us) so used to what your family habits are, you're not quite putting them in the picture when you compare what you're like, to what he's like.

Bottom line is, you two obviously have a lot of compromising to do, and he does sound a little bit odd/tight with money (pre-nups ring warning bells for me). It may be if you talk it out, you'll find a way that works for both of you, or you may not ... I don't know ... I'm just trying to say how I see it in case that helps.

Fair enough, OP, it does sound like you've been very hardworking/financially astute.

On the wider subject of joint finances, I agree with whoever said that my ideal would be that each partner is left with the same amount of 'personal money' each month, which, while he's still earning a small amount would probably mean you paying for nearly everything.

Of course, you may not see that as the ideal and might prefer a more separate route. If so, though, I do think he has a (tiny bit of a) point about it contributing to 'your' equity. I think it all depends on how you plan to work your finances when you are married.

lisanthus - i am already worried about our retirement. Yes, his savings are accidental - money he hadn't spent yet.

i am already worried about our retirement. I have a good pension (projected (£25K) and based on my calculations when i thought I'd saty sincle, planned to be mortgage free at 50 and start saving extra for retirment then.

He has no pension aprt from a state pension, i will have to support him. he might get an inheritance from his mum (she is 72) but she could she has a long term partner, so may decide to leave it all to to him.

he gets a £200 windfall each month as a survivor pension from his father, he just spends that and if I say " out it in a seperate savings account and spend it on something big one day, like a house deposit", he says no, he needs the money to live.

i would love to send my kids to private school but relaistically know I won't be able to afford it.

I have said to him that now as we are't saving for a wedding, we should be saving at the same rate, and earmarking it for maternity leave ( i just get stautory maternity pay, he thinks I'll be off work for a year - I have started saving for this already).

i do think he is a 46 year old man child who will never grow up, i accept he won't change and I'll be carrying the financial load. In other ways he is great though - very understanding, kind, caring. Does 50% of the housework and I know he will do 50% childcare, he does work hard - gets up at 6 am every day to commute to the other side of london for work, and is home after me, but the finances are what bother me.

The finances had a lot to do with why we split up when I was 25.

in the interim, i have worked, saved, been responsible, progressed my career - tried to find mr right, realised that the high fliers often aren't very nice, realised that I love my DF, and I contactd him in October to resume our relationship.

In the last 7 years, he didn't date anyone else as he says he was still in love with me, got fed up when all his friends married and had kids, continued his same young man lifestyle I suppose.

Ldr 'She doesn't say that, dprince, she says often both sets of parents contribute.'
The OP also says her mum is very traditional and in their tradition the brides parents pay for most. Which is what I was revering to. The OPs parents have always prepared to pay for the wedding, so why now the change of heart?

I would strongly advise your mum against asking for a contribution from his family. Your mum has to accept that she contributes for the wedding she wants you to have and you make up the shortfall. Or you have the scaled down wedding you want to have. His family will presumable have travel costs etc to attend the wedding anyway which will add up.

But this is by the by. Your attitudes to finance are so very different that I can see resentment building up on both sides. You are not wrong to expect him to contribute to the house you live in together but you are wrong to expect him to have the same financial priorities as you if he has never shown any interest in owning a family home etc. I think you need to have a serious chat about things before making any more financial plans and ensure that you are entering into a marriage where you both have roughly the same visions of how things will work money wise.

Ah, right, got you dp.

Do not marry this man.

the change of heart from my mum is exactly that - she is realising that what she wants for the wedding - and these are the things she wants - are going to cost more than she had budgeted for, and she is resentful that DF and his family are getting away without paying for anything. She thinks DF should be as though he was saving for a wedding, which he isn't as she has (foolishly, i think) told him she will pay for everything.

Lisanthus - you are absolutely right - he has never been taught to save for things, which is a major source of conflict. this is why we split up as I knew I would always have to be the "fun killer", sayin no to things, and I couldn't face a lifetime of that.

I am more realistic about relationships now, I never stopped loving DF and always compared other men to him. i want t o be with him for the rst of my life. i just wish he would grow up in his attitude to money though ( not now, but when he has a better income)

"The finances had a lot to do with why we split up when I was 25."
Were the issues then in the same vein as they are now?

I have talked to him about the pooling our finances and giving each other pocket money - he says it is a good idea but then doesn't follow through.

This is why i don't want to have a joint account with him or link our finances at all ( we did have a joint account when we lived together before)

Surely if you're getting married you should just put both of your salaries in a joint account and pay all of your expenses out of that. What's left is left then!

Money in relationships can change. In five years time you may be a SAHM and he may be earning 90K!

If you get married, your finances will be linked, though?

soory x post

Yes, when we split when i was 25, the issues were the same. i knw that he is not going to chang and I just need to accept him as he is, but I think I need to keep my finances seperate from him. After we marry, ince we have saved up enough to jointly buy a house/flat then do that, I keep this flat and rent it out as my pension.

I have spoken to a couple of male friends about this and they think i am being unreasonable and that if it was the other way around, i'd be expeting my husband to fund my retirement

what makes you think he is going to earn more in the future? I agree never say never, and different jobs have different remuneration paths - but 46 is pretty advanced in terms of maximising your earning capacity. He sounds a bit hapless, and lacking responsibility - that will only get more difficult as you have a family etc that needs supporting/raising. If you love him dearly it may be enough - but don't expect him to change/grow up as he has done all the growing up he can do by his age.

It is very kind of my mum to do this, but it also of course means the guests will mostly be her friends, and we are limited on who we can invite/ have to do things her way.

That sounds horrendous. You're going to be spending more time starting AIBU threads than you will be working at your well paid job between now and the wedding if you go down this potentially disastrous route.

being pragmatic though it is just better if she has the wedding the way she wants, as she cares about it more than we do.

Really? I understand your reasoning - I 'pragmatically' asked my niece and my goddaughter to be my flowergirls when I wasn't that fussed about having any (would possibly have preferred not to have) because they "care about it more than I do". But that decision will have very little overall impact on the day/start of my married life other than ensure there will be two very excited little girls on the day. But to relinquish 'ownership' of a day that ought to reflect you and your DH to be in every way is just asking for a whole world of headache.

Pay for your own, personal, wedding and do it your way. I have no advice as to how you put this to your Mum though.

I would not marry him. Sorry.

I find it astounding that a modern man of 46 find it impossible to grasp other cultures, and have so little respect for your mum and your family that he brandies her ridiculous. I am literally speechless.

I think the wedding issue is just silly, if your mum wants to invite lots of her friends she should pay for it. As far as the Dutch family being sensitive to your culture your mum should be sensitive to tgeir culture, maybe ask her if she would be happy with an intimate wedding the Dutch way and if she says no then say well if you want something else you pay for it.

I live with my DP in Sweden and I don't pay any of his mortgage or bills, why should I, he had the same mortgage/bills before I moved in so he could afford it then I don't see why I should pay it now. I also left a 35-40 grand a year job to come here and work in a low paid job, in my opinion he is bloody lucky I agreed to come here! The maternity leave is amazing and private schools/healthcare is free (similar to the conservatives free school system) daycare is 100 pounds a month I can see that Sweden is abetted place to bring up kids but that doesn't stop it being hard to relocate here. I do think you should appreciate him giving up so much for you, all your focus seems to be on money not valuing what he has given up for you or the family you might have in the future.

I don't think he will earn more in the future, at 46 I think he has reached the peak of his earning potential. I agree about the lacking in responsibility - that is why we split when I was 25, i was fed up of having to be the responsible one.

I hate being a nag, when I talk to him about finances, he listens, gets upset, but then just goes back to his old spendy ways.

I do think he will be a very involved and caring father, and I love him, i just don't want linked finances.

I'm not sure the separate finances for a married couple are either practical or legal.

Let's suppose in thirty years time you have a reasonable pension and he is scraping by on a state pension. He won't be able to pay half the bills for a reasonably comfortable lifestyle. You will therefore have to either a) cut your mutual coat to his cloth and live as if the two of you were on SMP or b) fund his lifestyle.

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought that any assets (including pensions) acquired during a marriage were considered to be joint assets by the law ?

Thanks honeytea for the firm words - I needed that, he will come home this evening from a job interview ( he doesn't think he will get it) and I want to tell him i appreciate him just being here with me

If you dont want linked finances, dont marry him.

Especially not if he is a spendthrift.

I don't think the joint finances or the costs of the wedding are the major issue here, IMO you have doubts about whether the relationship is going to work for you.
He does sound a bit of a 'freeloader' and the lack of understanding he shows to your culture is worrying.
I used to have a Dutch mother-in-law, and, quite frankly, I found her intransigence to any thing other than 'the Dutch Way' quite a difficuly one.

Whose idea was it that he should take a £25K cut in annual income in order to move in with you?

To bevhonest, and leaving aside any question of who is right or wrong, if money problems split you up at 25 and you are still stressing over your differing approaches to finances a decade later I can't see how you are going to make this marriage work. Already he's resenting paying for "your" equity, while you're resenting paying for "his" retirement. That's not good.