To not pay the nursery

[HowamIgoingtogetoutofthis]

Forgive the brevity, I typed a monster post so as not to drip feed, but I lost it.

I have left a violent relationship. Children at risk of abduction (international dimension, court orders protecting children now in place) by their father. He was arrested for assaulting me. When on remand my family and friends moved me out hundreds of miles away.

I emailed the nursery explained the situation (in some detail) explaining the children were not safe at the nursery if their father was released and his behaviour may present a security issue with regards other children.

The manager sent me an email saying he would speak to the owner, was sorry to hear what had gone on and would forward the bys portfolios on in confidence when necessary. Today the owner has sent me an invoice for the entire notice period (£1400). I had expected to lose the deposit, but I have literally just run away with my children to save them. I don't have that sort of money. AIBU not to pay? They can't sue me, I have no assets.

Are we certain he didn't sign the contract?

Although I agree that it's likely he didn't- Mildew is right.

MildewMayhew, the T&Cs I cut and pasted here were NOT the T&Cs of the OP's nursery but of the nursery named in the bulletin referenced by HybridTheory. That bulletin was giving example of companies that had had their T&Cs challenged by consumers, and the challenge upheld by the Office of Fair Trading. It just helps to demonstrate that the OP's nursery's T&Cs are open to challenge.

It's horrible that so many people are telling OP to ignore this completely.

I can see that she might have reasonable grounds to challenge the payment, or that she might be better off offering a very nominal amount, but she shouldn't just ignore it.

That's morally as bad as the nursery chasing for if they shouldn't be.

Ah, apologies. Got slightly muddled there. But it could still be used as a reference point - would that be correct?

I would not suggest ignoring - although they may not bother much at the moment you do realise that they have SIX YEARS under the Statute of Limitations to make you aware of the debt. I would try and reach a comprimise with them now.

Not true WhereYouLeftIt

I ignored debt collectors in regards to a disputed bill. They sent lots of pretend threatening letters but never actually sued me. So I never paid them. Had I received a summons I would have considered the matter, but I didn't.

If the nursery actually takes her to court that's really far from disastrous. They will not decide against her in her absence, she will receive a summons which she has the chance to respond to.

Chances are they will do nothing in the circumstances.

I would just send a brief email something like

'Dear Sir/Madam,

I regret that my children have had to leave the nursery, effective immediately.

They are subject of a court order to protect them from harm, which means that we have had to flee the area.

I would advise you to fill the place(s) with children from your waiting list since my children would be at risk of serious harm should they remain in the area and will therefore not be returning there.

I reject your demand for payment in lieu of notice, which is considered an unfair term within the meaning of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations and is therefore void and not part of the contract between the parties.

Finally I would note that as a result of the circumstances of my departure I do not have means to pay the £1400 you demand, so you are wasting your time pursuing this matter in any case.

I consider this matter closed and will not be entering into any further correspondence on this subject.

Regards,
HowamIgoingtogetoutofthis'

Send that email and then ignore anything else up to a court summons, which is VERY unlikely.

hybrid thing is this is very clearly a debt advice issue and coming out with stuff like a contract is a contract is a bit shitty given the circumstances.

fyi even the biggest firms contracts often sucessfully get challenged many are just relying on people not knowing the rules thats one of the reason we have rules. people tend to think ohhh its a big company im sure they wouldnt do anything wrong - well bollocks, if you do that for a living then you know damn well they do.

even if the contract is compleatly legal what makes you think it can be enforced against a person who has not paid when the none payment is not willfull or culpable (dv has good form when a decent advisor is involved for not being concidered to be either thus resulting in debt as a result being wiped by courts)

Ha the father did not sign it. He insisted I pay for nursey whilst I worked and he claimed bec he found it too stressful to look after the kids.

Will request contract and go from there. I was hoping to appeal to their better nature. A lovely post from Nettle, thanks. Pixies has been great too.

Also, I do not owe anyone at the moment. I am fully paid up. It's going forward the issue arises. I am not out to do over the nursery or anyone else. I was just shocked at the difference in opinions.

HowamI I'm not surprised that that he insisted you pay for the nursery

Keep going, you have done so well. It is crap that the nursery haven't been more understanding despite filling the places already.

I wish you all the best, I have no great advice but just wanted to say that I think you are fab for getting away.

You do realise that the satute of limitations ( most siplistic terms here) means that you can still be called on that debt for up to six years wether you chose to ignore it or not.

Oh and I would send the email CunningStunt posted.

op i dont think anybody in there right mind would think you have decided to just do the nursery out of fees. suituations like yours can be very hard for many people to comprehend they also may not know that there are people out there who are there to help and support people in your suituation,these people often come across the very same issue we are talking about and deal with stuff like this loads. try not to worry about it now.this is nothing that cant be sorted out.

well done for breaking away from the abuse,try and remember how much courage it took to do that, hold on to that and remember if you can solve that then you can solve anything.

Well said Sock.

Honestly I would not engage them too much. I reckon they are just fishing and hoping to catch something.

It's very easy to send a demand for payment, but if you call their bluff and say no they will almost certainly forget it.

I wouldn't ask for a copy of the contract, it just makes it seem like you are scared of them or believe that they have a case to get you to pay.

The fact is the contract is of no use to you unless they actually take you to court. Up until they take you to court (which is quite unlikely in the circumstances) you have no reason to pay a penny, as they have absolutely no means to get the money (except voluntarily) without a court judgement. You have no use for the contract at this point because you just say 'no, I am not paying', right up to the point (or once, I suggest, then just ignore any further emails/letters) when you receive actual court papers. At that point (which will likely not arrive), THEN you need the contract. Right now it's useless.

Apologies, I haven't read the whole thread, just the first 2 pages but I just wanted to say YANBU in case you're counting.
There is no way I would be paying in your circumstances. They can fill the spaces and you need to be thinking of your children so you need to keep your money for that.
I'm sorry but it would not make any sort of difference to me if I 'should' pay; I just wouldn't.

Well, the OP has already lost the deposit, which she had expected, so the nursery looks pretty grasping to go for the whole notice period as well, especially as there is a waiting list for places and it can easily fill the gap left by the OP's children. I'd reply explaining that you cannot pay, as Springforward suggests above.

YANBU given they have filled the places. Even the circumstances aside, most people don't get three months notice of redundancy etc.

I would write to then letting them you know they have filled the places and asking how long that took. I'd also quote the law someone else pointed out a few pages ago and see what response you get. At most, you should be considering a payment plan on the time the places were unused, minus your deposit.

And good luck OP. I hope things work out for you. You certainly shouldn't lose any sleep over the morality of this!

In my experience some private nurseries are concerned more with making money than child care.
They aren't losing money if the child isn't there and, as already mentioned, isn't a deposit to cover this type of situation?
I think you should take your contract to CAB and see if you can get out of it. They shouldn't be so insensitive to expect you to pay. It's truly awful.

Sorry, just seen you don't have the contract. Still think you should seek legal advice.

The remedy for breach of contract is normally the financial loss incurred, sometimes injunctions are imposed, too.

A waiting list implies their loss will be limited, but there will still be settling- days and a loss for days they expected your dc to turn up but they didn't

If it were me, I'd calculate the true number of days they didnt fill with a paying child because of this, and send them a cheque for that, explaining how you came to the number and offering this amount in full and final settlement of their debt.

They may take it further of course, but court sympathy would be VERY limited in such circs.

OP, hopefully you will see from this thread that you do have somewhere to go with this, but I truly do think you are going to need legal advice in order to do so successfully.

Agreeing to a payment plan without taking legal advice first would be extremely unwise IME.

Sounds like the nursery are money grubbing gits if you ask me. You have paid a deposit (which you will lose) & the nursery can fill the place so they won't lose. Send the excellent letter SC posted above & they can whistle for the rest. Twats.

Well done for leaving OP you have done the right thing as you well know.
I too am puzzled as to how this poor faceless, nameless person will lose their job and home when the OP has paid for what they have used and more and they have a waiting list with children ready to start immediately.

I am torn. On the one hand why are these going to you and you alone? Your ex is a lot more contactable and half responsible for this bill, let them pursue him. On the other hand the letter someone posted along the lines of "making a profit from my misfortune" was also fantastic.