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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not pay the nursery

142 replies

HowamIgoingtogetoutofthis · 02/08/2012 19:58

Forgive the brevity, I typed a monster post so as not to drip feed, but I lost it.

I have left a violent relationship. Children at risk of abduction (international dimension, court orders protecting children now in place) by their father. He was arrested for assaulting me. When on remand my family and friends moved me out hundreds of miles away.

I emailed the nursery explained the situation (in some detail) explaining the children were not safe at the nursery if their father was released and his behaviour may present a security issue with regards other children.

The manager sent me an email saying he would speak to the owner, was sorry to hear what had gone on and would forward the bys portfolios on in confidence when necessary. Today the owner has sent me an invoice for the entire notice period (£1400). I had expected to lose the deposit, but I have literally just run away with my children to save them. I don't have that sort of money. AIBU not to pay? They can't sue me, I have no assets.

OP posts:
mummmsy · 02/08/2012 20:12

couldn't they get dad to pay - they are his children too after all? Or is this unfeasible if it was you who signed the contract? i also realise this may add to an already very volatile situation.

as someone who also had to do a midnight flit, abduction risk I can only say that 6 years on it seems like a distant and horrible bad dream. Hope things improve.

Original poster
HowamIgoingtogetoutofthis · 02/08/2012 20:13

No it's just a privately run nursery.

OP posts:
mummmsy · 02/08/2012 20:14

oh that should say abduction risk, assault etc

JumpingThroughHoops · 02/08/2012 20:16

Small business go to the wall with defaulters every day. It has a knock on effect of contributing to unemployment; these faceless people ahve homes and children to provide for too.

Frankly, If I were in the run, last thing I'd be thinking about is emailing everyone, telling them, let alone having a mums discussion over who was getting the place and when they are starting.

50shadesofstress · 02/08/2012 20:17

I am shocked they would not have asked for a reduced amount or waivered it completely given the fact they have someone to start immediately.

A parent at our nursery sought advice from citizen's advice about the debt and they wrote to us on behalf of the parent. We did all we could to help the parent (they were still at the nursery) and they paid us over a long period of time with very small payments - at worse case you could agree this but I must say I cannot agree with their actions in principal.

50shadesofstress · 02/08/2012 20:17

I mean principle not principal!

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 02/08/2012 20:17

Sorry, but you owe the money and you should pay. Hat goes for your LL and whoever else too.

If you can't then you can't and there's no more to it really, but YABVU to expect that a business will not want to act in a business like manner.

I'd expect them to have compassion in some circumstances, such as the death of a child or a parent, but not in these circumstances because you will have had some element of choice.

Saying that though, your situation sounds horrendous and I hope you and your dc are ok.

MaryHansack · 02/08/2012 20:17

what springforward said sounds a good move.

VoldemortsOlympicNippleRings · 02/08/2012 20:18

How many weeks notice and how many children where attending to amount to that much money.

I would do as others have said, appeal to their better nature and ask for a discount/payment plan. You can bet your back teeth they will get debt collectors to recover the debt if you ignore it, and then you will have their costs on top.

Babyrabbits · 02/08/2012 20:18

Contact cab, you will prob have to pay it. ( you entered into a contract with them and should honour it)
You could offer a reduced term, to pay in full now or a very long payment plan, say £5. A month.

That's what the courts would agree. ( as you have no other way to pay) do not put your head in the sand it will be much worse if bayliffs get involved.

Sorry for you, sounds really bad. Be very careful about him finding you. Do not give anyone your address. Change your names.

Hippee · 02/08/2012 20:19

I can't believe that they would charge the full amount, if they are going to fill the place from a waiting list. To me, the contract would be to protect them from losing money, not to enable them to double their money.

Socknickingpixie · 02/08/2012 20:20

have you paid for what was actually used?
often nurserys will have a clause in the terms and conditions that may allow you to withold some of the fees for the notice period if they are unable to safeguard your children.some dont have these clauses.

i know a nursery that charged the full notice period when the child died i thought it was crap.but i know another that tried to take a parent to court for none payment and lost as they would not stop the dad from taking the kids as he had pr (mum had court order forbiding access),i also know another that did the same,dad had no pr but they wouldnt accept a birth cert as evidence of this so told mum they wouldnt stop dad taking them unless she could provide evidence issued within the last 30 days confirming he didnt mum pulled kids out they took her to court mum won.

the other way to look at it is if they dont know where you are how will they find you? it is perfectly legal for you to use any name you want on the electrol roll providing you are not placing yourself in a possition to vote twice.thats what they use to find you.unless yuou go and get a none exdirectory phone number ofcourse.

Original poster
HowamIgoingtogetoutofthis · 02/08/2012 20:21

I am not sure what you mean by that jumping through hoops? That perhaps I am not actually having that much of a tough time and this is all some lark/extended holiday? That I am making it up? What? A close friend who was worried about me also has children there. She was telling me how we were missed and providing friendly support. She mentioned another mutual friend was starting, it made me sad. Like my life was moving on without me. They will not fold for a two day a week fill-able place surely?

OP posts:
WhereYouLeftIt · 02/08/2012 20:21

"... and they can fill the place, there is a waiting list. In fact I know who will be taking it, so they aren't actually losing at all."

I would point this out to the nursery, that by insisting on you paying the notice period when your DC's places will not be left empty, they would be seeking to profit from your misfortune. Lay it on thick.

50shadesofstress · 02/08/2012 20:23

£1400 for 2 days a week notice period? That sounds an awful lot of money!

I agree with WhereyouleftIt

HipHopSkipJumpomous · 02/08/2012 20:23

I would tell them to invoice your ex. You are in this situation because of him.

OP don't feel you need to deal with this now. You have a lot on your plate.

Tell the nursery you can't pay now. Ask them to bill your ex. If he doesn't pay you can enter into some agreement with them and pay off in instalments. It will all get sorted out.

Right now focus on getting your family safe and resettled.

WhereYouLeftIt · 02/08/2012 20:25

2 days a week = £1400? How long is the notice period OP, and how many children? It sounds an awful lot for two days a week.

HipHopSkipJumpomous · 02/08/2012 20:25

Just saw that they can fill places straight away. In that case they will be out of pocket very little and surely your deposit wld cover? I'm assuming you have paid for the places/care you have used?

They sound heartless.

Original poster
HowamIgoingtogetoutofthis · 02/08/2012 20:26

Ha at element of choice freddos. I shoulda stayed the three months notice getting smacked about and risking never seeing my children again to ensure I properly discharged my obligations.

I will offer them a payment plan in line with what I can afford (nothing really, I left my job) and if they want to take me to court let them, I would pay less on a means tested order anyway.

OP posts:
zeitgeist2012 · 02/08/2012 20:26

YANBU. I would send a letter explaining that you are not able to pay due to to unforeseen circumstances and then let them chase you - they may not bother. If they do chase you I would take advice from the CAB (but preferably a solicitor) because you may find that you are able to breach the contract or thst the worst that can happen is that you will have to pay in installments which will be dependent on what you are able to pay.

Original poster
HowamIgoingtogetoutofthis · 02/08/2012 20:28

That's one day each for each child for three months. It's in London and one of the cheaper in the area. I have paid for everything used and more.

OP posts:
Springforward · 02/08/2012 20:29

I would suggest you don't offer them a payment plan in the first instance. In your extreme circumstances I would seriously try and push to get it written off, but I think you will need legal advice in order to make that work. The payment plan could be your fallback position, then.

McHappyPants2012 · 02/08/2012 20:34

What a heartless nursery, IMO the nursery shouldn't have even asked for the money.

What if op didn't move and a nursery worker was seriously assaulted and also put other children at risk.

Socknickingpixie · 02/08/2012 20:44

the cab have far more clout these days than a soliciter most actually have soliciters availible to them as workers. they can also deal with things like unfair contract terms and other such things. (lots of nurserys have found themselves on the reciving end of judges not finding in their favor due to that little gem)

for those of you who clearly have no clue about how debt collection works, it is very very rare for a balif to become involved if its not a road traffic offense debt or a priority debt (ct/rent/mortgage/water) the people that deal with these are debt collectors and they have no more power than i do to ask you nicely to pay.they cant even knock your door if you tell them not to its called harrisment and against the office of fair trading rules,many will but when told where to go will back off they also have no access to any gov databases to locate you. debt collectors often use formal language or formal looking letters (like court orders) to frighton people into paying ammounts they cannot afford this relys on normal people not knowing the rules they have to opperate under they are often bullies who should know better

Noqontrol · 02/08/2012 20:52

If they've got someone to fill that space then its bloody tight of them. Id be tempted to let them chase you for it and not offer a payment plan either.