To offer a Landlord's perspective

[RoseWay]

There's been a lot of bashing of Landlords on here of late, land-owning class etc. I thought I'd share some experiences to offer an insight into why many are so paranoid about their property.

Background: we rented a family house out whilst we worked elsewhere near jobs.

Tennant 1: 6 months until first check, hadn't used heating all winter (we know for sure from bills no gas used) to save £ and had dried clothes inside. Worse damp across the property I've ever seen, left with 2 months rent unpaid, advised not worth pursuing due to chance of getting money back as gone abroad.

No. 2: Man, partner was his carer as he couldn't walk. Constantly sabotaged property (e.g. disconnecting waste water pipe, unscrewing bits in the boiler, removing floorboards) then calling environmental health. Seemed to be linked to trying to get council house but never really understood why. Maybe another reason. Intially thought problems were genuine until plumbers etc started poiting out deliberate damage. Turned out to be working as a roofer of all things and left shortly after causing a lot of damage to ours, including removing entire outhouse roof (???) Left owing rent, not reclaimed.

no. 3: we nearly lost lease due to action from neighbours due to noise.left owing rent.

no. 4: didn't clean in entire tennacy. Kitchen in particular so sticky shoes stuck to the floor. carpets ruined. junk in cellar/ outhouse about 4 skips worth.

All left withoutpaying rent worth more than the deposit plus an average damage of £500-£1000 (when fixing ourselves, not using anyone if possible)

Now we're moving back, out of pocket due to all the repairs etc. and to a very very poor condition house which was once lovely.

Not all tennans are like this, but I'm trying to share that not all landlords are greedy scum either. It's a horrible thing to rent your own home out and know all the risks, even if you try to be a wonderful landlord.

I can't offhand remember how many people you have to have in a place to make it an HMO, I think it might be five or above.

I think the major difference is really in the amount of equipment a LL must put into an HMO over and above the usual (ie, kitchen, bathroom, that sort of thing). Stuff like there are rules about how many toilets/kitchens for a specified number of people, and of course the fire doors, fire alarms, fire escapes.

My flat is a 3 person HMO. In Scotland, HMO licenses are required for houseshares of 3 or more unrelated persons. Completely OTT, strictest regime in the entire world.

Emmieging I'm afraid I agree house prices have been ripe for a fall for ages and only sustained by gov/financial shenanigans and lots of people would not take a 100% mortgage.
Used to get letters offering me credit cards with this and that to borrow all the time doesn't mean I went shopping every weekend

Anyway I came back to this just to mention what is one of my all time crap landlord stories, the nob actually retained 86p from my deposit (despite me overpaying the rent by nearly 100 pounds) all done by some very dodgy maths 'proving that I had underpaid'

some of your stories explain why we have been getting hand written thank you notes and flowers from our ll's after moving out.
just for leaving the flats in good working order without too much damage beyond fair wear and tear...
scary stuff

Mavis that reminds me of the otherwise absolutely lovely landlord that wouldn't let my family install a washing machine, because the previois tenants' one had broken down and flooded the kitchen. Mine you, the rent was low, so...

I hardly think you can compare taking on a mortgage with going clothes shopping on a credit card southwest!!

And I agree house prices are ridiculously high, and are likely to drop further.

I just vehemently disagree with the poster upthread who slated everyone who has bought houses in the last decade or two, as wanting to make a fast buck. IMO people buy houses to have a home. When you are not in the fortunate position to be able to save £50 k for a deposit, or get gifted a down payment from mum and dad, then 100% mortgage was the only way to go. Believe me I'd far rather not have had to borrow that much. It's not about greediness or recklessnessness. In our case, getting the moertgage is cheaper than rentiing, unless it were renting social housing (ha ha - was that a pig flew past?) so getting on the housing ladder was the sensible thing to do. Even for people whose houses may have dropped in value, research shows that over the course of a lifetime, the decision to buy is usually better than renting. Which is why the diatribe upthread about people being stupid and short sighted to have bought houses is just spiteful and nasty.

Anyway, no interest in making a fast buck here- my home is to live in, and god forbid we ever need to join the ranks of landlords and rent it out, judging by the nightmare stories on here about some tenants

I am quite happy blaming banks for providing 100% mortgages, but I don't see how it's fair to blame people who took them. It's a horrible position to be in.

I'm not convinced that buying will continue to prove better than renting over our lifetimes, but it's fairly obvious, isn't it, that if your rent is substantially more than your mortgage would be and someone is offering you one at 100%, you will be tempted to take it.

LRD - well I wouldn't be tempted without doing my sums. People that took 100% without thinking about it deserved to be burned to be honest. People need to take personal responsibility.

'deserve to be burned'? Slight overreaction there!

It's all very well to be smug after the fact, but it doesn't serve any useful purpose, does it?

I don't see how you could prove every person who took out those mortgages wasn't exercising 'personal responsibility'. You seem to have missed the fact that, while some people surely did go into it without thinking what might happen or because they were greedy, others did it because it was the best choice for them, and would still do it again, even knowing with certainty they'd end up losing value on their houses.

Deserve to be burned?? Really?

So- when you don't earn enough to save a deposit, you don't have rich parents to gift you a down payment, you're offered a mortgage which is CHEAPER than renting and you have the good sense to take out a long term fixed rate deal so you're not caught out by rising interest rates.... You're still being stupid are you, to buy a house?

Oh and add to just mix, the need for stability because you're planning to start a family, and you know the importance to children of having consistent and reliable childcare so you don't want to stay renting and possibly have to move around and find a new childminder or nursery.... Well obviously me and several hundred thousand others just deserve to burn for being so stupid as to want a home...

God some of the judgemental attitudes on here are depressing.

emmieging - afraid it's attitudes like yours that got lots of people into trouble. A mortgage is like renting. Lots of people seem to forget (and forget to add on) the interest they are paying to the bank for the bank letting them stay in the bank's house.

If people couldn't afford to save for a deposit when 100% were being given out then IMO they were fools to take on a 100% mortgage.

TBF it sounds as though you have had bad experiences, OP. Perhaps you're not vetting your tenants throughly enough? Some family members own rental properties, have done for years, and have never had any major problems at all

zhagh, what exactly did you expect people to do?

They can't afford the rental price.

They can afford the mortgage.

Would you have preferred them to go on the council waiting list, which in some areas is extremely long, which many people would feel guilty about when they could afford a mortgage?

Or what?

(I bet you're now going to come out with one of those wonderful 'oh, they should just downsize! And eat cake!' comments. Please don't.)

Gosh thanks for the maths lesson zhag. I had no idea that the fixed rate mortgage we pay each month is - er- interest paid to the bank. Thanks for enlightening me.

Now- seeing as in the 7 years since we have bought our house, we have spent out considerably less on interest to the bank than we would on paying rent to a LL, plus we have the security of not needing to move at 2 months notice so our children have had continuity of care at nursery and school, PLUS we've been able to make improvements to the house because the bank (who are kindly letting me stay in the house ) don't stop me doing that... Remind me again why I'm a fool??

Maybe it was foolish to take on a 100% mortgage, but surely you understand that it was the best out of a shit range of options?

At least people who took on these mortgages were trying to take responsibility for themselves. That's got to be better than applying for social housing when you could afford private rent.

100% mortgages come with a big risk, but they also come with some hope that just maybe, one day you will own your own home. And at the very least you will get stability in the short to medium term. That's not too much to want is it?

I'm very big on people taking personal responsibility for themselves, but even I can't find a reason to criticise people who took these mortgages.

best one I had was tennant who refused to remove her belongings after moving, and the told housing office she had moved 2 months before she actually did, she was on direct payment due to arrears, we ended up repaying £1000 to council, despite their own employee confirming (she came out to property), that she and all her goods were in our house.

Totally agree, freddos.

We have had good and bad tenants. One lot provided forged details and then trashed the house, eventually the police were involved. Our current tenants are a family and as far as I am concerned they can stay as long as they want. We do pop in once a while but that is partly to tidy the garden as they aren't keen gardeners but are happy for us to cut the lawn.

Emmieging - I think your earlier post answers that question. You've admitted you bought LONG ago and yet you have very little equity in the house. You have spent money doing up the house. You are paying a mortgage.

Sounds like it's been a very expensive exercise. Have you actually worked out how much, IF ANY, of the price you have paid back to the bank?

So no answer to what people should do otherwise, then, zhagh?

What a surprise.

Yea zhag I have thanks. Obviously the early part of the mortgage is virtually all interest, but with the money we've saved through not having to rent, we have made overpayments on the capital. We did of course, take out a deal which allowed a certain amount of overpayment without penalties .

Any more helpful maths lessons from you? Or do we all just go and burn now?

poster LRDtheFeministDragon Thu 02-Aug-12 11:56:10
So no answer to what people should do otherwise, then, zhagh?

What a surprise.
_
Easy Rent. The reason prices were high was because people like you were paying ridiculous amounts for the houses. If no-one was willing to paying those prices they would fall. As for the the mortgage payment being less than the rent that is very shortsighted just to look at is that way. Would you buy anything else for double what it should cost just because you could get a cheap finance deal on it?