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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that taxpayer funded schools SHOULD use qualified teachers?

363 replies

TalkinPeace2 · 27/07/2012 16:40

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19017544

So Academies are now free to leave our children to be taught by cheap unqualified people
potentially jeapordising their chances at competing with the best in the world
just because the Dfe is determined to break the unions and the LEAs, not because of any sound educational reasons.

OP posts:
melonandpapayaandmango · 29/07/2012 21:00

Bullying is a big problem in teaching Migsy, yes.

Migsy1 · 29/07/2012 21:03

Why? What do the unions do?

melonandpapayaandmango · 29/07/2012 21:05

In my husband's case, not very much. They attended a meeting with him as a witness but just advised him to find another school, which he did but it's hardly the point!

As to why ... I don't know. His situation certainly wasn't a unique one though.

EvilSynchronisedDivers · 29/07/2012 21:09

melon, I'm sorry that your DH had a tough time- proof, I suppose, that not every teacher thrives in every school.

However, I don't agree that bullying is a huge problem in teaching at all.

ilovesooty · 29/07/2012 21:09

My union advised me to resign. They said hardly anyone gets through capability and my rep immediately pointed out that given what my HT was like things would get nastier the longer I stayed.

My previous HT was furious on my behalf. I'm still in touch with her now.

ilovesooty · 29/07/2012 21:10

However, I don't agree that bullying is a huge problem in teaching at all

Seriously?

melonandpapayaandmango · 29/07/2012 21:16

did you resign ilovesooty?

Evil - it is a big problem in teaching by all accounts. With my husband it wasn't that he didn't thrive, he really didn't do anything wrong, or bad, or inappropriate. He just had situations manipulated and taken out of context - ridiculous really.

Migsy1 · 29/07/2012 21:16

Crikey! I would have thought the union would be supportive. That is what they are there for. Advising someone to get another job is surely not very helpful.

I'm about to start a PGCE and I've heard so many horror stories, I'm quite worried. Hmm

echt · 29/07/2012 21:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EvilSynchronisedDivers · 29/07/2012 21:19

Yes, seriously. I understand that you've been put through the mill but I've been teaching for 14 years and come from a family of teachers and I genuinely wouldn't say it's a huge problem. Obviously workplace bullying happens, but I don't believe it's any more prevalent in teaching than in any other industry. My dad was high up in the NASUWT for years. Bullying was not the most common thing he dealt with by any means. I also don't believe that being placed on capability procedures is always unwarranted, and IME this happening because of bullying (ie to get someone "out") is very rare.

EvilSynchronisedDivers · 29/07/2012 21:21

ilovesooty - I am surprised that your union advised you to resign because hardly anyone gets through capability.

ilovesooty · 29/07/2012 21:21

I was sacked on ill health capability, melon

I couldn't face going through the hearing but apparently my HT lied through his teeth. I found out afterwards that they counted as full days absence the days I'd been to early hospital appointments (I was awaiting a gall bladder op and was in dreadful pain) even though I'd arrived at school at 10am and only missed the first lesson of the day. One of the governors at the hearing asked to see the letter I'd written several times and apparent told the HT that his evidence didn't bear any relation to the teacher who'd taught his son.

EvilSynchronisedDivers · 29/07/2012 21:22

And melon - "by all accounts"? Not by all, no. My account disputes yours. I get that your DH had a bad time, but his experience is not typical.

BoffinMum · 29/07/2012 21:22

The standard of management in some schools can be disappointingly poor, and that's when bullying kicks in, IME. What concerns me about dismantling the professional basis for teaching is that it gives free reign to those wanting little fiefdoms who are good at sucking up to governors, and that is not necessarily good for children's learning.

ilovesooty · 29/07/2012 21:24

Evil I think it's becoming increasingly common now. A large proportion of teachers who are being forced out are on UPS, therefore expensive, and over 50 (and probably not as malleable as younger staff).

EvilSynchronisedDivers · 29/07/2012 21:28

Sorry, but I disagree with you.

bigbuttons · 29/07/2012 21:33

melon I totally agree that formal teacher training is an absolute must but I think that one year on PGCE just isn't enough. Formal training within the school is the way to go and I think that that s what some courses are doing. A teacher at our school has a daughter who is going to do just that. Teaching is a profession and should be recognised as such.

Feenie · 29/07/2012 21:38

melon I totally agree that formal teacher training is an absolute must but I think that one year on PGCE just isn't enough. Formal training within the school is the way to go and I think that that s what some courses are doing.

I agree - but that's still only one year.

Mrbojangles1 · 29/07/2012 21:39

ilovesooty dont agree my oh Cousin is a teacher and i wouldnt let him look after out cat we were all very shocked as he dosent really like kids

He makes fun of his students on his facebook hates teaching but wanted a steady job and to travel during the summer he is now in oz his satus ready "whoop whoop from bratz to backpacking"

Their are some wonderful teachers my child has some but some teachers are pants form the off
Some classes dont need to be taught by teachers and some do whats the issueand you may find some children may respond to being taught by some who is not a "teacher"

ravenAK · 29/07/2012 21:39

I've witnessed colleagues being bullied out for being too old &/or too bolshy (Union rep), or wanting to go part time. I'd say it's endemic in some schools, very much dependent on the ethos of the SLG.

& liable to be a damn sight worse in Cackademies from everything I've heard.

Glad you haven't encountered it, though, Evil.

juniper904 · 29/07/2012 21:39

bigbuttons What happens if the school's teachers are not very good? Or if they don't value young and inexperienced teachers? If a trainee teacher's entire training is done on the job, and the mentors are not good, then that trainee is getting a huge disservice. At least with ITT and PGCEs you have a range of tutors and advisers.

In my final teaching practice, my class teacher didn't want me in her room. She made that clear from the first day. My tutor was an ex-head and an ex-OFSTED inspector, and he got me through it. His advice was to survive, take a deep breath and then forget the silly woman exists. If my entire practice had been based on her, then I would have had major problems.

melonandpapayaandmango · 29/07/2012 21:40

evil - I'm going off what the union told him at the time.

I don't understand what you mean by "I am surprised that your union advised you to resign because hardly anyone gets through capability." - am genuinely confused.

It's true hardly anyone gets through capability, that's why so many teachers resign.

It's also true that not all cases of capability are unjustified but it certainly was in my husband's case.

Feenie · 29/07/2012 21:41

I agree you seem to have suffered from some bad teaching, Mrbojangles, since you aren't making much sense at all.

Some classes dont need to be taught by teachers and some do whats the issueand you may find some children may respond to being taught by some who is not a "teacher"

What are you basing this idea on?

nkf · 29/07/2012 21:41

Academies are unpopular places to work. They struggle to find staff. Look through the TES. That's where all the vacancies are. So they have to cut corners. The idea that it's only a year's training. It's actually five years. Three years of degree. One year PGCE and one year NQT. Same as a lawyer.

sidress · 29/07/2012 21:44

No yanbu. We need proper teachers in whatever setup and if an unqualified teacher is superior why arent't they qualified on paper? Do we want a doctor, lawyer, driving instructor not approved???