to think that taxpayer funded schools SHOULD use qualified teachers?

[TalkinPeace2]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19017544

So Academies are now free to leave our children to be taught by cheap unqualified people
potentially jeapordising their chances at competing with the best in the world
just because the Dfe is determined to break the unions and the LEAs, not because of any sound educational reasons.

ilovesooty dont agree my oh Cousin is a teacher and i wouldnt let him look after out cat

So you don't agree just because you have a cousin who's an unprofessional dickhead? (well he is if he makes fun of students on FB) Of course teaching has poor people working in it - so does any job.

melon - sorry- I meant that for ilovesooty.

I understand now Evil, sorry am really slow tonight!

It's not true that hardly anyone gets through capability. It's hard work, but if the right sort of guidance us given, it IS possible.

It's understandable that your opinions are coloured by your DH's experiences, but please don't assume his experience is typical.

Mrbojangles1

"my oh Cousin is a teacher and i wouldnt let him look after out cat"
I know many people like this very few are teachers.

"Some classes dont need to be taught by teachers"
Which classes would they be?

I think I have about 50 teachers as friends on FB & the vast majority of us posted something along the lines of 'Wahey! See you down the pub' a week ago. Although I agree referring to brats is not on.

Also, your cousin may well be a nobhead as far as his family are concerned, but he might also be a perfectly good teacher.

There's a degree of perversity in your argument in that taking on unqualified staff probably isn't going to reduce the number of people working in schools who have no actual interest in teaching & just want to travel in the hols. To be fair.

I agree with ravenAK's last paragraph and will add

if they are teaching on a whim (because it looks easy and the breaks are good) what makes you think that they are going to stay and not just walk out.

There is no garden leave in teaching.

Bullying in teaching isn't a new thing- my mother was a teacher, and had her career and mental health destroyed by the head of the school she was in. This was 20 years ago. My colleague's brother also suffered the same (though in independent sector).

Merrymouse- I agree with you entirely - parents of children in independent schools are free to take their money elsewhere if they are unhappy with the standard of teaching (by unqualified, or qualified 'teachers'). Those in academies have very little, if indeed any, choice. In our LA, you get the school you're offered, and that's it, there just aren't alternatives available. If you aren't happy with the standard of teaching, you have to pay, or put up with it. It's an area of extreme poverty, so you can guess what people have to do.

Euphemia, you have some sound points too. In Denmark, all teachers (up to middle-school age) must have a Masters in Pedagogy.

Evil, my husband certainly wouldn't - he was set up to fail. I don't know what the stats are but someone on the other page said something about hardly anyone getting through capability? Or something! Sorry, I really am not with it tonight - I'm not being deliberately ignorant or anything, I just keep missing things (I do have a very very tiny DS, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!)

I think the training should be in schools, not just one school, for 2 years.

Depends on what it's for.

I agree Primary aged children do need someone who has knowledge of children, education and the curriculum.

I think though at secondary level having a sports coach as opposed to a KS3/4 PE teacher may not be a terrible thing. I actually taught Dance for 7 hours a week at an English private school (abroad). The actual PE teacher had no idea where to begin and I'm a dance teacher. I didn't have to do any teachery paperwork though!

Now as an LSA I take whole groups when the teacher is out of class. I also lead a dance group once a week and plan and assess the pupils for this - makes sense as again I know about dance. I am a grade D LSA though.

That'd be the usual current arrangement of a PGCE (two or more placements) followed by an NQT year as your first year of employment, leading to Qualified Teacher Status, then.

For those unsure about the problems some teachers face with workplace bullying may I suggest you read Workplace Dilemmas, Pay & Conditions and Health & Wellbeing over on TES.

You might find you change your ideas or maybe not, I don't know.

I am concerned about what I hear about bullying in the teaching profession. However, I worked for many years in Local Government and I can honestly say that plenty of bullying takes place there too.

I think bullying takes place in all large workplace environments. I hope it doesn't happen more in teaching than anywhere else. However, based on comments I have read on internet forums, I do get the impression that teaching is a very bitchy environment. I don't know why this should be.

As an athletics coach I think that a UK athletics coach can be better at 'teaching' the sport than many PE teachers, but would expect this to be so as I specialise in 1 area and am not expected to teach sports that I have no experience in. When it comes to specialist sports I would hope that a qualified coach would be better than a teacher.
Perhaps schools could use their local sports club coaches in conjunction with PE teachers and everyone would benefit in this way.

I should also add that, in my opinion, the bitchiness and constant moaning does not do the teaching profession any favours in the eyes of the public. I would have gone into teaching many years ago but the public image put me off.

I think the Labour Government did a lot to improve the image of the profession and that the quality of people entering the profession has vastly improved in recent years.

Gove is bringing teaching down by his constant criticisms of the curriculum and academic standards. This announcement about unqualified teachers only adds to that. As someone about to embark on ITT I am concerned about his policies but politicians have a quick turnover. He will pass.

Migsy1

Its the holidays and yet teachers are stillbeing belittled and moaned about, I (and others) will defend our profession. If thst is classed as bitching and moaning then so be it.

mollymole

How much would you charge for a series of lessons and which part of the schoiol budget would you expect to be cut for the constant stream of specialists to be able to come in?

Migsy

(sorry)

Gove will pass but how much damage will he do in the time that he is here.
I have seen this exact same thing in industry, managers come in and "streamline" the buisness then go up and then the next manager does the same.

Education should not be a political tool.

BoneyBackJefferson

PHSE -much better taught by a youth worker

And i pretty much think nearly all the pratical subjects could be better taught by in the field professional

I would much rather say have my child taught dance by some one who has actually been in a dance comapy travelled and toured than somone who has simply studied a level dance then degree dance then teaching

Sadly many teachers dont actaully dont have work place experince in their choosen subject and i think the children would really benefit for that

My fil is a QC and i can tell you he would be able to deliver a lession in law to riavl any teaher teaching a level law How triloing would it be for a young person to learn for somoen who has been in the thick of a muder trial

ALSO TO THOSE who think this dosent happen it dose so some of the teachers on here are telling porkey you often have PE teachers for instance teaching secince or drama teachers teaching GCSE english they are linked subject but the bottom line is if you have a drama degree you dont have a english one

Its such a shame were so agasint trying new ideas

BoneyBackJefferson shame labour didnt take notice

They did a fine job now you cant take pictures of your own child in a school play,displine is at a all time low and all teachers were allowed to do is ring their hands lest they be prosctued, schools chooseing which exam bord and when their students will take subject and we have non competive sports day AWSOME go labour didnt they well

the defination of madness is doing the same thing over again and expecting a diffrent result what labour was doing was not working we have to try somthing new

Adult Literacy classes spring to mind.....

PHSE I agree with ]

I disagree with these though

Practical subjects are not all practical based, someone who can dance doesn't mean that they can teache dance to anyone else.

Your FIL may be a QC but unless he is very different to those very dry QCs that I know, I doubt very much that he would hold 30 pupils attention for very long.

If you look at the P.E KS3 sylabus you will see that there is a requirement for biology and physiology, and again for drama, writing, discussing scripts and grammer.

Once again
H.E is not cooking.
P.E is not just kicking a ball about.
RM is not just hitting things with hammers.
and Drama is not just acting.

I am all for new aideas but they only have a chance of working if the person/s trying to implement them have some idea of what they are doing.

Mrbojangles1

just FYI

it was the tories in 88 that started what we have know its not just labour that should take the blame.

I can tell you though that I don't vote labour and any political affiliation that I may have has no part in my teaching practice.

BoneyBackJefferson granted but if there was achance for your child at GCSE level getting taught HE by A chef that has worked in world class restruants or ran their own restuarnt how can that be bad

Just because your a qc dosent mean you can teach but equally because you have teaching qualifaction dosent mean you can teach you have only to go to the education thread to read about teahers who are failing their students and parents desprate because they want their child out of that class

Just on a side not my fil is a brillant speaker had my young son and his mates rivted at christmas with court room drama showed them the wig and all the garb in the end we had to tell the boys grandpa has had enough now

Drama is notJust acting hence why i wouldnt mind my child be taught by somone who has actally acted somone who has worked in a theatre or been a script wirter or worked in casting

Could you imagain if we could get some of our retired medalist to coach our children in sport With in schol in the US do belive their coachs dont have teaching degrees many of their athletes come up though high school and collage coaching

BoneyBackJefferson"it was the tories in 88 that started what we have know its not just labour that should take the blame. "

And then labour carried it on for the next 12 years could of stopped it at any time also closed down all the grammer schools closing the only door a bright poor child had of gettinf a good academic education

In NI has the best academic recored in the uk and what do they have chruch schools and grammer schools