to think that taxpayer funded schools SHOULD use qualified teachers?

[TalkinPeace2]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19017544

So Academies are now free to leave our children to be taught by cheap unqualified people
potentially jeapordising their chances at competing with the best in the world
just because the Dfe is determined to break the unions and the LEAs, not because of any sound educational reasons.

Agree totally with Wolvesdidit posts

Pgce isn't assessed by an examination mrbojangles

Mrbojangles
So - you do not trust the current crop of 'qualified' teachers
What makes you think the 'unqualified' ones will be any better.

Surely the answer is to go in the opposite direction to that taken by this government.

P-P-P Pickles wanted "armchair auditors" to replace the expensive professionals - and just LOOK where "lighter touch" auditing got our financial systems.

Now the boy Gove
(who will NEVER send hid kids to a state school so does not give a shit)
is turning teachers into jovial amateurs
and yet the DTI and BIS still expect state schools to produce good results.

I UTTERLY agree that bad teachers should be sackable
BUT without recourse

• ie unless they are found to have actually endangered a child they should be allowed to work elsewhere

after all the board rooms of the City are full of those who have fucked up at their previous companies.

but good teachers (at teaching NOT management grades) should be paid on a scale comparable to GPs as they are SO integral to the long term health of the nation.
And the CPD requirements (40 hours curriculum/technical, 20 hours management per year) should be the same

I don't think anybody would have a problem with a youth worker coming into a school to talk about PHSE - targeted teaching at certain groups generally can be done well by people who are specialists.

However, this is not the job spec of a teacher in a state school. I agree that some teachers aren't very good, and some people may be naturally gifted. However, just given the sheer amount of admin and box ticking that teachers in state schools have to do nowadays, I don't understand how you could do a teacher's job without training.

Obviously other staff could help you out and give you advice, but wouldn't this just be providing training without actually paying for it?

I did a BA (Hons) in Primary Education with QTS. It was a 4 year degree, but not post graduate. Within that, I did 5 teaching practices; ranging from nursery to year 5. My dissertation was based on how assessment for learning and classroom discourse improve progress, and I got a first.

Writing essays doesn't make a good teacher; classroom experience, learning from mistakes, being self reflective and having the opportunity to experiment with different styles makes a good teacher. Being a good teacher is about far more than having expertise in a specific field. Good subject knowledge is important, but in my opinion, the most important skill a teacher can have is the ability to make the curriculum accessible.

Teaching is not a 'craft' as Gove likes to make out. It is an art, or a science. Look at the definition of pedagogy. He is systematically trying to rip the profession to shreds, and it is really disheartening for someone like me who really enjoys their job ad is good at it (I hope!).

If Gove is anything like Cameron in the classroom, I imagine he would be eaten alive in the first week.

this thread is obsessed with PGCE!
i got my QTS via GTP route, which means I was employed as an unqualified teacher for a year while training. At first I was mainly observing others, by the end I was teaching 80% or thereabouts. Regular observations and gradings throughout the year (at least weekly).
I do know this - despite being a mature candidate with loads of outside experience, and school experience as a TA - without training towards QTS I wouldn't have been able to do a good job in the classroom.

Surely, this will all pass once Mr Gove goes?

Mrbojangles Of course your son would learn more in his weekend cooking class than from his DT teacher. this is because food tech has limited hours in the curriculum and Mr Gove wants to see even less of it. It is not the teacher's fault. Some DT classes last less than an hour and that has to include the theory as well as the practical. You can safely blame the Government for that!

In my view i see no issue with this just because you can blag yur way trough the pgce dose not mean you can teach and as we all know control a class

Most of the PGCE is spent on placement.

For instance the best person to teach PHSE would be a youth woker they are best placed to talk in my view about the realties of sex and drugs ect

Agreed.

And i dare say it would be a lot easier to sack these people if they didnt do their job unlike a qaulified teacher Who seem to hang on for dear life no matter what

Are you not familiar with the new fast track to capability?

Most of the rest of your post is drivel. I doubt you have any knowledge of teacher training.

My poor husband is a teacher and nearly ended up on capability procedings, for the cardinal sin of one poor lesson (due to behaviour.) He has since left that school and been promoted twice but contrary to popular belief, it's actually quite easy to set a teacher up to fail.

Absolutely, melon

I'm glad your husband came out of it ok.

Thank you, ilovesooty. It was an absolutely awful time, it still haunts me now if I am honest.

The frightening thing was, when he spoke to the union, they indicated it was not at all uncommon!

Mrbojangles1Sun 29-Jul-12 16:53:31
"My son has learnt more from the weekend cooking club he attends that he has Ever has from his H.E teacher "

go find a syllabus and educate yourself as to what H.E is
also your cooking club will be able to kick out any badly behaved children.

Yep, couldn't agree more - cooking club = children who are interested and whose parents have paid for them to be there.

Totally different.

Unfortunately, melon it's becoming increasingly common. And being unjustly put on capability is an experience that stays with you and the people closest to you for a very long time.

Only a total ignoramus could actually think school and cooking club are comparable.

PGCE isn't that great a prep for being a teacher. I did one and had a fantastic tutor. I was also assessed by the chief examiner and found to be an excellent and very capable student. However, as I entered my first year of teaching I was well aware that one year's worth of cramming was no where near adequate. I spent the first few years as a teacher learning how to be a teacher, making huge mistakes, not having a clue half the time. The best way to learn to be a teacher is to spend all your time shadowing another teacher.

My husband was/is a Science teacher. He did well at his first school, and he was promoted to be a key stage 3 co-ordinator in the Science department when I was expecting DD (in 2007.) Then when I became pregnant with DS, he got a job as a second in the Science department. DS was born May 2009, my husband started his new job September 2009.

He was made aware very early on his face didn't fit, and he didn't know why. He is a very mild mannered man (when he isn't watching girls play volleyball!) and I can't think of anything he would have said or done that offended people. He had a really difficult year there, where he felt nothing he said or did was right. If he ever told a child off or sent them out he would be questioned and on one occasion even had to apologise to a child for "touching him" - all DH had done was put an arm out to stop this child barging out of the classroom!

In September 2010 he was observed and was found to be inadequate. At this point, lots of other "evidence" was found against him, and honestly you wouldn't believe the lies - it was horrible. He agreed to leave and did so at Christmas. He actually got a job as Head of Science in January 2011, he's just been promoted again to be an Assistant Headteacher.

He has always claimed he doesn't even think his lesson was a bad one, they just twisted things so that it was. It was an awful time, I'm glad it's behind us both but don't ever believe that it's hard to sack a teacher. It might be hard to dismiss, it certainly isn't hard to throw someone out via the side exit!

Bigbuttons, I think a lot of it is learning on the job but the point to me here is that if the government are saying the PGCE isn't necessary then they are saying that teachers aren't a "profession" and that is not a good thing at all, I don't think.

He was made aware very early on his face didn't fit, and he didn't know why

I know the feeling.

lots of other "evidence" was found against him, and honestly you wouldn't believe the lies

Oh, I would...

You just don't become a bad teacher overnight.

haveyou/your partner been there too ils?

Teaching and nursing are absolutely horrendous for bullying (I am a nurse!)

I've been there melon

I was an excellent, well regarded teacher for years, then moved for a promotion and my face just didn't fit. I ended up in a psychiatric hospital, returned and spent the next year with them trying to force me out. When they put me on capability the LA advisor wanted to know what they were playing at. I got the teaching capability lifted but the HOD capability remained. When he broke his leg they got someone else in who told the most awful lies, and several of my colleagues also sabotaged my recovery.

I left teaching eventually and I'm happy to say that I've built a completely new career where I'm appreciated and through retraining I'm self employed as well.

ilovesooty that's terrible, I am pleased you've built a new career but angry on your behalf you had to.

Is the teaching profession full of nasty bullies then?