To think it is hypocritical for parents who are anti 'Tory elitism' and are Labour voters to send their child to a grammar school?

[Liketochat1]

Aibu to think a parent who is a Labour voter and anti 'Tory elitism' and private schooling, might be hypocritical to accept a place at a grammar school for their child? If you have left wing views, would you accept a grammar school place?
This is not about me by the way or anyone I know. Just a hypotheitcal question I've discussed in the past and found interesting.

Just to correct a few inaccuracies being spouted by the OP.
A new Grammar is NOT being built in Sevenoaks. Several existing grammar schools in Tunbridge Wells have been given the green light to set up satellite campuses, which might well be in Sevenoaks, where there is demand as there is no grammar school in the locality, unlike most of Kent. House prices near a proposed site are unlikely to be affected as admissions are not linked to where you live. Do your research OP.

My parents are quite anti both labour and Tory. I went to grammar school, it was my choice (none of my siblings went to grammar).

I studied Politics A level there and it was very left wing and anti-establishment.

YANBU at all!

Not hypocritical - in an ideal world all schools would be good, and grammar schools wouldn't need to cream off the brightest. However it's not an ideal world. Here in London for example, in Haringey ( for example) there are no grammar schools. In neighbouring Enfield and Barnet ( both Tory) there are grammar schools where many of the brightest children go,to the detriment of the other schools, and if i lived half a mile down the road i would have made every effort to get my children into one of them. As it is, I didn't need to, as nearest school ( comprehensive) is very good and there are enough academically able children there ( because most of the local children go there so there is a good mix)to ensure that my son is challenged by at least some classmates on the same academic level as him.
Sorry ,that's a bit longwinded, but my point is that Labour MPs such as Diane Abbot did not devise the existing two-tier system,the Tories did, and i don't see why she should have chosen an under-performing school for her child just because she is a socialist. I do however expect her to work towards an education system which is not divisive or elitist.

For all you people who say it's not hypocritical (it is) have you written to your party to tell them you don't agree with their view on grammar schools?

What a shame that so many grammars are being destroyed/have been

OK. I'm a labour voter and when she's old enough, I highly doubt DD will be going to a grammar school but I do think that the OP's logic is flawed.

By the same reasoning, it would be also hypocritical for Tory voters to claim any sort of benefits or use the NHS.

Let left wingers use grammar schools and let right wingers use the welfare state. It doesn't make anyone a hypocrite.

Take off your judgey pants, OP.

The vast majority of parents are just trying to do what's best for their DC, using what is available to them.

And FeralSlipper, if you think the OP is a troll, the correct form is to report her to MNHQ.

AnneTwacky

OK. I'm a labour voter and when she's old enough, I highly doubt DD will be going to a grammar school but I do think that the OP's logic is flawed.

By the same reasoning, it would be also hypocritical for Tory voters to claim any sort of benefits or use the NHS.

Nonsense. How many Tory voters don't accept the need for a welfare state?

Let left wingers use grammar schools and let right wingers use the welfare state. It doesn't make anyone a hypocrite.

As I stated above, you're a hypocrite if you use a system you're actively campaigning to abolish. Socialists who campaign to abolish grammar schools or private education while using them are hypocrites. Right-wingers who want the welfare state to be smaller while still being accessible are not.

It's been striking to see, in this thread, so many hypocrites who deny that they're hypocrites. No, you really are hypocritical to send your kids to private/grammar while campaigning against them, whether you think you are or not.

I send my ds to a SS GS, but then I don't disagree with them. I think there shudo be more GS places so that every child who is GS standard gets a place. I will also be using a comp for ds2 because we are lucky to have a good one and even though we think he could pass the test, he needs a broader education than GS provides.

GS is not always the best option, even for intelligent children. I think people forget that GSs are just schools that teach the more academic subjects and cut out a lot of the creative subjects, so they select their intake accordingly. There is nothing else that fundamentally makes them better.

It's not hypocritical to use a GS if you believe in socialism. It's bad parenting to deny your children an opportunity that is open to them because of your own principles, and it's bad parenting to prioritise your opinions on state education above your opinions on what would be best for your child.

YABU. Currently virtually all academically selective schools are private schools. There should be more grammars so that more children have the chance to be selected purely on ability, not money.

you can be a socialist and sends your child to private school thats like saying labour voters shouldnt have mortgages do you think the blairs children went to state school,

Surely socialism is about providing people with what they need. If a child needs a place at a smaller more academic school then they should get it. That's why we need more grammars, not less.

If a child needs a place at a smaller more academic school then they should get it. That's why we need more grammars, not less.

we have no grammar schools where I live it is either the primary high school or independent schools, I do think children should have the best education and TBH if we could have I may ave considered private school ,

OP, would you have a problem with a socialist sending a child with special needs and learning difficulties to a special school?

There are particular needs at both ends of the spectrum and that's why I think there should be schools for gifted children as well as schools for those with special needs.

One size doesn't fit all.

Exactly, all children have different needs, and why anyone thinks its possible for every child's needs to be met in exactly the same way is beyond me.

We don't expect every child to do the same thing at 16, why do we expect them all to fit the same mould a few years earlier?

I have never understood why the left is opposed to grammar schools.

I also think it's a piss take how some members of the left claim the moral high ground because they went to state school, forgetting to mention that to go to that state school their parents had to buy a house in one of the most expensive areas of the country.

It is up to individual people to do the best for their children. The ones at fault are the ones who don't give a shit and send them to the local school no matter how bad it is.

ByTheSea, if people like you stopped using schools like that then many would probably experience a massive fall in numbers and not be able to continue to operate. Which is what you want, right?

It's just another case of I'm all right Jack - your children have to have the best, but other people's children should make do.

cinnamonnut if other people's children are highly academic then they too will be able to go to a selective school, if it exists in their area.

The "best" IMHO is for children to be in schools alongside many others who are at a similar level (not just a tiny sub-group of others). Comprehensives provide tihs to those at the middle levels, but do not offer this to the most and least able children.

Do you have to pay to go to the grammar schools your talking about? Because around here grammar schools are all private. If so then yanbu.

Every parent wants their children to have the best they can provide. When they don't, that's when there's an actual problem.

Denise34

I have never understood why the left is opposed to grammar schools.

Not all the Left is. Working-class leftwing voters and left-libertarians support them. Unfortunately left-wing thought is now dominated (through the TV) by the Fabian strand of thinking that we see in the Guardian, an authoritarian left-wingery which has a very low opinion of your average voter and treats them, basically, like cattle.

I also think it's a piss take how some members of the left claim the moral high ground because they went to state school, forgetting to mention that to go to that state school their parents had to buy a house in one of the most expensive areas of the country.

Indeed. A good example of that is Holland Park (a central London school), which is nicknamed 'the socialist Eton'. Tony Benn sent his kids there. Apparently it has just finished a £100m renovation, which is enough to pay for 10 primary schools in other areas of the country.

Private and gramar are not the same thing, though, are they? I'm (very) left wing and would never send my child to a private school or work in one because I am opposed to the idea that wealth should give privilege. However, grammar schools are state schools, you know, provided by the state, for the citizens of the state WHich I am. If there were one in .my area and DD had qualified for it I would have let her go, as is her right as a citizen of the state. Our wealth, or lack of it, would not give a better/worse chance of going there.
I do not actually think the grammar system is a good one as it writes off too many children (those in favour of grammar schools always assume that their DCS would go to them, not to the Secondary Modern, don't they?) so on those grounds I might campaign/vote for their abolition. Doesn't make it hypocritical to use them until then - I'm not opposed to the principle but rather the practicalities of the system.

Cardibach, that's where a lot of people think the problem is though, wealth can give children a better chance of going to grammar schools. Either by paying for prep school, private tutors, 11+study books, or just by having enough time so that you can go through free practice papers yourself. Some low income single families, especially those with multiple children, are not ale to provide the time to do the prep work required to pass the 11+.

This isn't my opinion btw, I fully support GSs as I have a child at a SS one and we didnt pay for any tutoring, but I have had enough debates on the subject on here to kw that this is one thing many people think is unfair about the grammar system.

so is it not possible to belive that the state system should raise there game.

i would make a choice for my kids based on league tables, ofstead reports,class size,strenghts,observed behaviour and how they combine with the needs of my child.

i strongly belive every child should have access to a great education but im not so stupid that i belive its availible in every comp its not, some really are just large teenage baby sitting centers and they dont even do a good job of that.

as a child i went to public school and for a short time a state comp.the differences are huge.

most of my dc's go to fee paying schools because the school suits them,why should my political views for an ideal that does not exist mean they dont get the very best i can provide.

i would use a cheap hairdresser if i liked what they provided equally as such if i could see no clear benefit from using a branded product over a none brand then i would pick the cheaper option its the same as education.if you personally see no problem with whats free or paid via taxes or you have limited choice then use it if you have limited choice but dont like it then vote accordingly.if you wish to pay for it why shouldnt you. i know i get no tax discounts for doing so.

whats so wrong with public school?

Also, Tory elitism is a bad thing, being based on wealth/social standing.
THe elitism shown by grammars is based on merit. I ahve no problem with that at all and as I say I am as lefty as a lefty thing. ALthough I appreciate your point, Outraged , and something needs to be done about that - there must be some way to test for ability in a way that can't be coached/practised.