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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it is hypocritical for parents who are anti 'Tory elitism' and are Labour voters to send their child to a grammar school?

129 replies

Liketochat1 · 26/07/2012 16:43

Aibu to think a parent who is a Labour voter and anti 'Tory elitism' and private schooling, might be hypocritical to accept a place at a grammar school for their child? If you have left wing views, would you accept a grammar school place?
This is not about me by the way or anyone I know. Just a hypotheitcal question I've discussed in the past and found interesting.

OP posts:
usualsuspect · 26/07/2012 20:38

Oh how I agree with that.Until vocational subjects are taken as seriously as academia subjects and not treated as second best then a two tier education system is never going to work.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 26/07/2012 20:39

I am genuinely not sure what I'd do if we had the 11 plus here. I usually know what ,y position is on things, but I'm not sure what I would do or how I would feel about it in this case.k

usualsuspect · 26/07/2012 20:40

Btechs and NVQs etc are constantly sneered at on MN and by employers.

The children that go to secondary modern schools don't stand a bloody chance.

CecilyP · 26/07/2012 20:47

I think it would depend where you were. I used to live in Kingston, quite near the boys grammar school but would have much preferred a nearby comprehensive would have opted out of the selection process. OTOH, if I lived in Kent ..... In one respect, academic selection is just one of many oversubscription criteria. In Birmingham, particularly, there are several superselectives; and one ordinary grammar which seems to be completely sidestepped by the suburban middle-classes.

tryingtonotfeckup · 26/07/2012 20:49

Usual, it depends on the employer. I used to work for a construction firm, a number of the Management Board worked their way up from the apprenticeship scheme, so they started at the company at 16 / 17. Where you came from didn't matter, it was whether or not you could do the job.

I know a number of people who aren't academic who have done really well in their careers, because they are bright, good interpersonal skills, work hard and have a grasp of business. I know a lot of people, who are academic and have also done really well. Academic qualificaiotns give you a good start but its not everything. I agree, I don't think people should sneer at Btechs and NVQs.

Portofino · 26/07/2012 20:52

I went to Grammar School. I grew up on a large council estate. I was very glad of the opportunity of a decent education in an enviroment that suited me - the last part being the most important. It changed my life.

usualsuspect · 26/07/2012 20:54

I went to a secondary modern, was treated as factory fodder

But there you go.

Portofino · 26/07/2012 20:54

However, I do believe that this idea of Uni places for all has really screwed it all up. I know lots of bright people who are much better re. practical skills than academic ones that have done really well.

usualsuspect · 26/07/2012 20:57

The thing is on MN anyway, all teenagers are expected to go to university as if it's the norm.

So whose children do you think should go down the vocational route?

Portofino · 26/07/2012 20:58

I should have done.

Toughasoldboots · 26/07/2012 21:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

usualsuspect · 26/07/2012 21:04

See thats why I love our truly comprehensive system, all the kids are given the opportunity to do A levels at 6th form or do more vocational courses.

I don't think that theres anything wrong with doing a child care GCSE either.

Portofino · 26/07/2012 21:04

I don't agree with Uni for all. Plenty of my schoolmates went in to banks/retail at 18 for management programmes. A couple went to Oxbridge. Some got PG. I don't do elitist shite. School should prepare you for life.

Toughasoldboots · 26/07/2012 21:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LunaticFringe · 26/07/2012 21:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

usualsuspect · 26/07/2012 21:06

I don't agree with Uni for all, I think all should have the choice though.

I don't think vocational courses will ever be held in the same regard as academic qualifications though.

Portofino · 26/07/2012 21:06

Usual - that is how it should be I think. Mind you I don't believe in Private schools.....

usualsuspect · 26/07/2012 21:08

Well I don't believe in Private schools either.

Portofino · 26/07/2012 21:11

Children should all get the education they deserve, at the level that suits them best, and money should have nothing to do with it.

Tallalime · 26/07/2012 21:11

That's the problem usual there have been years of almost subliminal messaging telling us that academia is all-important, while completely ignoring the fact that we're not all academic.

The push to get everyone into Uni has affected the job market - I needed a degree for my job, I am an administrator, I have a philosophy and theology degree. It's bugger all to do with my job, and I could have done my job with my GCSE qualifications easily but the expectation these days is that anyone with a decent education goes to uni - and it's bollocks.

I think I see it differently because the most successful people I know did vocational qualifications - back in the 50's and 60's, they are well off and successful and talented. But they aren't academic - they're successful because they learned to do something they were good at, and therefore enjoyed. I doubt they would be as successful if they had grown up in the 80's/90's like I did as their skill set isn't valued the same way these days.

I really hope that if my children are not academic that I will go out of my way to help them to succeed in whatever it is they're good at. Unfortunately these days if your child is 'handy' it's only the wealthy that have that option as they can chose an independent school that fosters those skills.

Which is ludicrous to me.

When I think of all these kids who are 'left behind' and essentially told their skills are useless and pointless it makes me really fucking angry. Really, I wish we (as a society) would start from the premise that almost all kids are good at something, and that something should be identified and nurtured.

I honestly think it would improve so much, even things like literacy/maths skills, because kids are more likely to engage with those things if they are a small part of a wider syllabus that they enjoy. Rather than the be all and end-all of a life that ends in a university place that they're pretty sure they don't want/won't get anyway.

And honestly I think people who look down on vocational qualifications are wankers.

usualsuspect · 26/07/2012 21:20

It just seems to me these days that if you don't have a degree in something you are not quite good enough.

Portofino · 26/07/2012 21:53

I totally agree, Tallalime. And there should be NO shame in being a hairdresser, a plumber, a builder, a childcare worker. We NEED all these skills. I have no time for snobbism or the Xenia view that we all must be company directors or we have failed.

Toughasoldboots · 26/07/2012 21:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FeralSlipper · 28/07/2012 12:13

Oh good grief. You cannot help yourself can you?

liketochat1 did this thread in many various guises at least a dozen times before. Are you thick liketochat1? Do you get a kick out of winding people up? Are you that sad?

Don't answer that btw, it was rhetorical.

ByTheSea · 28/07/2012 12:21

We have one DD at a superselective and are hopeful for our other DD to go there as well. We are further to the left than Labour.

Why? Because it's there. We alone cannot change the fact that this school exists, that is up to the government and society as a whole. Not to us as individuals. Do we wish all schools could provide this level of education for our DCs and grammars did not exist? Yes.

I like that our DD is there anyway sharing her own very left-wing views with her classmates. I'm sure that enhances their educations too.

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