..to say that if you break into someones home

[WildWorld2004]

You should be ready to be attacked.

Have just read a news story about a guy who broke into a house & got attacked by the homeowner.

Now if someone broke into my home i would do whatever i could to protect myself, my child & my home. Wouldnt everyone else??

Whose fault is it if the burglar gets injured?

Suprised by the negativity directed to Tony Martin... so what if the bastard was "running away" how do you know if he's running away in the dark? The

The bloke who was shot was just let on release for other burglary offences and his cousin has put a £60,000 bounty on Tony's life.

I also remember reading about a burglar who injured himself falling through someones sky light - the couple being burgled had to pay compensation.

Disgusting - enter someone's house without an invite at your own risk and you can't grumble about what happens

just don't be the burglar. I am pretty poor but i would never steal or be a burglar. I get pissed of with rich people having it all, but i wouldn't steal to get it. I am bitter, I moan, I hate my life sometimes, but I would never ever go into someone's house and take what wasn't mine. And although i have bugger all, If someone came into my house it wouldn't be about what they took, it would be that they tried to violate me and my family. I think burglars know the risk or else they are off their heads on drugs and wouldn't feel the bullet anyway. No I have no sympathy for burglars...its not just what they take its the fear they spread..

He was raised that way, they're scumbags, they have no standards, no values, no respect, no shame, normal people wouldn't want to admit the association. If it was a relative of mine I'd be telling the parents I hope they're happy with the consequences of raising their child so badly.

If they where downstairs I'd phone the police. If they came upstairs (past the sleeping dog who would probably see if they had food them return to bed) then i would use whatever I had to hand to damage them with. Way I see it is: everything I have worth nicking is downstairs, they should be able to pinch enough to satisfy themselves without needing to come upstairs. So in my view If they are coming upstairs they are after more than making a few quid. That's my logic anyway !

Nobody was raised to be unlawfully killed.

People are raised to be criminals, eventually they pick into the wrong person.

Really? Dead burglars cousin thinks it's okay to put a bounty on Tony's head... so obviously he was raised to think unlawful killing is okay... well unless it's one of his own

If you shoot someone unlawfully then you are the scumbag, with no standards, no values, no shame.

Each to their own.

I don't think Tony was a scumbag

Just using bobbledunk's rationale.

I see a difference between Tony being prepared to defend himself at any cost and the dead burglars cousin sticking a bounty on Tony's head because he wants to play an eye for an eye.

From what I remember, intruders had entered Tony's home several times and not much had been done about it. Had the burglars not unlawfully entered Tony's property this incident wouldn't have taken place. Tony didn't decide he was going to go on a killing spree, he wasn't previously convicted of murders. The intruder did have previous history and he did target Tony... to me that shows a difference in values. Tony may not have valued the life that entered his home... but in the dark would you care about what damage you did to someone who intrudes?

Someone who shoots a burglar out of fear is not the scumbag, they didn't create this problem, the burglar did. You need to understand the difference between victim and criminal. The victim only responds to the situation that the criminal created.

The important fact is that the burglar was shot in the back running away. It doesn't matter what went on before. He was not a threat at that time. The law is explicit.

My sentiments exactly Bobble

Bobble, I only go by what the law allows.

In hindsight Tony knows he was running away. Do you really think anyone who wakes up hearing intruders is going to slowly and rationally think and look?

In the dark he could of been running at him or running away - should he have asked the burglar to wait a minute whilst he puts the light on to see if he is a threat or not?

I think that if you make a decision to break the law, you place yourself outside the law and cannot then expect the laws protection.

If you break into my house, thereby disregarding the law of the land, you cannot then expect that same law to protect you if I fetch you a whack around the head with whatever comes to hand.

Either you subscribe to the law in which case you dont break it and it will protect you if someone else does, or you dont in which case you are on your own.

And no, if a family member of mine was killed whilst trying to rob, rape, murder or otherwise abuse someone, I would not lay flowers at the place where they died. I would lay them on their grave or in a chapel of remembrance and feel sad that I couldnt or didnt help them when they strayed onto the path that led them there.

burgarlars risk assessment
likelihood of being injured or killed 50%
likelihood of escaping with swag 95%

It doesn't give anyone the right to kill anyone unlawfully though. It is quite simple really.

I can safely go to bed knowing 1) Ive got f all worth stealing, and 2) MY DOG WILL BITE YOU IN THE BALLS

This is an example where medieval law had it just about right. I refer to the concept of the 'outlaw'. Not some romantic figure drinking mead with his mates whilst wearing some fetching tights and playing with his bow and arrow, I mean outlaw in the original legal definition.

The principle, in a nutshell, was that if you were acting outside of the law, you forfeited the protection of the law until the situation was redressed legally. In other words if a scumbag breaks into your house, at least until the cops turn up, it's fair game to do what you like to them. This could involve flaming pits of tar and large wooden spikes if you are so minded.

As for Tony Martin, he killed one of the thieving bastards but I seem to remember reading at the time that he also shot the other one in the bollocks too! In most countries he'd be feted as a hero - here in Britain we lock him up!

Either you subscribe to the law in which case you dont break it and it will protect you if someone else does, or you dont in which case you are on your own.

It's such a shame the law isn't like this.

The Poor bloke has been in prison and has a bounty on his head because the police didn't agree with the amount of force he used on two scum bags who decided to intrude into his house.

@scurry, WWYD?

scurry - the law might not give you the right... but would you give a fuck if you think your life is in danger?

I think that if you make a decision to break the law, you place yourself outside the law and cannot then expect the laws protection.

Well, it doesn't work like that, which imo is a good thing, because then you would have all kinds of mob retribution and vigilante behaviour.