to be scared to death our childminder has erected a swimming pool in her garden?

[NotAnotherNewNappy]

Just picked the DS's up from our normally lovely CM to find she now has a pool in her garden

It's one of those big paddling pools (about 3 foot high, 8 foot wide - I only had a quick look). She explained it was for the bigger kids and that she bought the bigger size so DS (14mo) wouldn't be able to climb into it. Now the thought of DS somehow managing to push a step to it and climb in unnoticed has left me feeling queasy. I also have a 4yo DD, but I think she's big enough to stand up in it... But does this mean it's safe for her?

AIBU? I have suffered PND and anxiety so have no idea. All I know is drowning is the second most common reason for death among young children and that if she'd had the bloody thing when I was looking for a CM then I'd never have hired her.

Also, IMHO, if there are older children around that is a bigger risk in combination with the pool....

I wouldn't let my DC go there.

Backyard pools are very, very common here. They are almost always fenced off separately from the rest of the garden and there are municipal bi-laws about how high the actual perimeter fence has to be etc. I know this isn't a real pool but you need to have very specific information about how she plans to manage this. No sensible person I know would have a great big paddling pool/pond/inground pool and multiple children in-house and not have a) a safety fence around the water feature and b) very specific rules/procedures regarding safety and supervision. I wouldn't be comfortable with this at all, tbh.

i am a laid back parent, but that would scare me.

i hope she has done a risk assessment

No, it isn't safe for your dd just because she could stand up in it. A child can drown in an inch of water.

I wouldn't let the child go there any more.

In addition, the fact she didn't tell you, the fact she thinks the small children can't get in, the fact she's so blase about it - this woman has not got a CLUE about what a dangerous thing she's done.

YANBU at all. I'm half Australian and all pools are fenced now, even in houses without small kids. They weren't when I was a kid but a lot of drownings later, and things have changed. Similarly, when I was a kid Dad used to complain about the sunscreen because he wanted me to get a tan - 20 years later and he turned the car round and drove back home when my half-sibs had forgotten their sunhats.

Countries with a lot of pools have them fenced off for a reason. This isn't at all safe. The CM needs to have a word with 1) her insurers, and 2) OFSTED, and 3) RSPoA. If she did, she'd get that pool down so fast it would leave waves.

I would be very, very uncomfortable about this and personally would probably withdraw my child from this childminder's care. I am personally not comfortable with water of any sorts in gardens, ponds, pools, rivers, lakes etc... I can just about cope with a small paddling pool but my DS would not be out of my sight for even a second. Even if they had a prior risk assessment, I would still not be happy, because although it shows she has thought through safety aspects of the pool, it would not be enough to out my mind at rest.

Yanbu. This would worry me too

Yanbu at all.

YANBU! I am so laid back I'm practically horizontal, but small children always need to be supervised when near a pool. Her comment about having a cover on it and thinking that will render it safe raises a red flag to me. She thinks the cover is protection enough, so will not be watching when it is on.

YANBU. Whilst it sounds like great fun for the older children, she seems to have forgotten she has a youngster in her care.I'm very laid back & allow my children quite a bit of freedom but water & toddlers are a big 'no no' from me too I'm afraid!

I was horrified to read the size of this pool and young children aged only 14 months and 4. What on earth is this cm thinking about!!

I wonder if it would be worth ringing up your local authority and speaking to the person who co-ordinates the child minders or early years co-ordinator. I think there is such a person or team in most local authorities. You wouldn't need to give your name but you could say you are just concerned and making a general enquiry about the safety of this.

Can't see how it would pass any safety inspection.

YANBU, I would not be happy about sending my kids there.

YANBU. I am a CM and i wouldn't even consider this. Little kids can move very fast. Tell her you aren't happy with it being used for your kids. If you are very concerned and she won't take it down, you can ring Ofsted and ask what they think. They are not keen on ponds or any access to pools etc. Please don't make a complaint about her unless it escalates, she sounds like she means well. If I had a pool that size, I'd fill it with sand and have a giant pit.

Well I'm divided, tbh. It is a scary, scary thought. Especially as we have just bought a pool that sounds just like the CMs.

We have 3 children aged 6 (with SN) almost 5, and 3.

We have half-filled it and allowed the children to use it while we are inside, with regular checks to see that we can see their faces, etc. So, actually, I think that there is a risk that they could drown between checks.

As for the size of that risk, I'm not sure.

I looked into the statistics just now. In 2010 there were 420 Water Related Deaths (not including 117 additional deaths which were suspected to be suicide).

Of those 420 deaths, just 19 (4.52%) were deaths of children under 10 years old.

Of those 19 children, only 5 were in a swimming pool (either actual swimming pool or paddling pool), so just over one quarter.

So the incidence of children under 10 dying in swimming pools (including paddling pools) is 1.19% of all drownings in the UK in 2010. WAID report

Now, I don't say that lightly. It's 5 too many. But perhaps not as wildly common as we would be led to believe?

Lougle - maybe the low figure you are quoting is because most people aren't stupid enough to mix young children and pools??

Lougle it's not wildly common in this country because not that many people have them as a permanent summer fixture when their kids are that small. In countries that do, they take it phenomenally seriously.

And I would never leave a 3 year old without adult supervision in a garden with a pool, tbh. Hell, I'd not leave a preschooler alone on a trampoline.

I have brought one of these pools today, £30 8 foot by 3 foot, I have only ever brought in the past the smallest paddling pool ever and it last 2 days before I got rid of it, they fill me with such fear, because when my boys where 18 months old, a complete stranger to me but just down the road lost a 2 year old twin in a paddling pool drowning, Mum had 5 children and from what I read in the paper, they where all in the kitchen and she was sorting out their lunches/dinner, when she realised 1 was missing, it filled me with such dread, I knew how easy it was for me to get distracted by 1 of my twins and then be running about trying to find the other.
My boys are 7 now and I feel I have to let them have this type of fun, we are out all day and get in a 6pm, so it will just be 1 hour of supervision me thinks, well this pool took 3 hours to fill and at 11pm I gave up it is nearly there, about 10 mins later I heard a noise in the kitchen went through and found one of my twins in the garden, I just want to check it is full mummy!
he went to bed 3 hours ago, but obviously excited, so no I don't think you are unreasonable,
for alternative fun I used to use those slip and slides, risk a broken leg, but not life threatening but they don't last, water pistols and throwing cups of water at each other.
these pools can not be tipped out, just look at the filling time I took. also it says 6 years plus, and that leaning on the edge of the pool can led to collapse and injury, hat is a 14 month going to want to do if they can't get in?

but do talk to her about your concerns maybe she has a big superdooper baby prison (playpen) she uses in the garden, I did in both house and garden for the moment of the phone call, bell going, needing the loo, they where so big, I used them all the time, small children are so quick, it was safest

I know a few CMs and they all tell me that they are not permitted to take their mindees swimming. Surely a pool in the back garden is MORE dangerous than the local pool with its lifeguards?

You need to check whether Ofsted allow it, whether her liability insurance covers
it and whether she has a risk assesment.

I would NOT be happy abput it.

Ask her to show you the risk assessment, the authorisation from ofsted that they have approved it, the insurance certificate that specifically insures for her to have a pool in the garden with her number/age of mindees and for the local council approval certificate.

I'd speak to the council (and ofsted too if possible) beforehand to confirm to yourself that they are not likely to approve it.

I'd then ask her to empty it and take it down until she is able to provide all the appropriate documentation - ie she won't be able to and therefore it won't go back up while she is childminding.

It's all very well to say that you should keep your dc away from childminder while she has it up but most dc get sent to a childminder for a reason - that their parents need to work - and therefore it's not practical to keep them at home, especially if parents of the big kids are encouraging her to have a pool.

Therefore I think you need to manage the situation so that teh pool gets taken down now before the kids get too used to it or attached to it and make sure that every which way she turns, she gets told by the council/ofsted/etc that she can't have the pool up for her mindees.

good luck - sounds a horrible situation. but I can empathise - I would be exactly the same (and have refused to buy a trampoline for my young dc even though my mum and dsis think I'm cruel as dsis's kids love theirs. but I've had a nasty accident on one when I was older and I just don't think that it is worth the risk. no way would I let them have this sort of pool!)

I would never send my child to a cm with any kind of pond or pool, even if risk assessments have been carried out. For me, it wouldn't be worth the risk and worry. Yanbu.

I would be worried too, I took my ds2 (along with older dc's) to a public paddling pool last year, depth no more than 30cm, he managed to rush off into the centre of the pool and then fall over, it took me about 3 seconds to register that he was really finding it difficult to stand up again, about another 5 seconds to dash and grab him, omg it was scary.

He was totally traumatised, to me it felt like about 3 hours. I took him again the other day and didn't take my eyes off him for a second. Imagine that with your 4yo in a much deeper pool, really even if they can swim, it takes seconds for them to slip and then not be able to find their footing again .

I would certainly not be happy with this arrangement at all.

I am a CM and I would not get a pool like this. She can take the bigger kids swimming when she does not have the wee ones. I had a paddling pool that was a fiver from tesco and only about 15cm deep and i emptied it when wee ones came. I understand that she is trying to please all her clients. She can lock door to garden et supervise wee ones. Im sure she has a risk assessment in place. But still, Im sorry, its a no from me.