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Original poster

....to want to ban page 3???

736 replies

DianaVreeland · 20/07/2012 16:07

I remember seeing a page 3 girl for the first time when I was about 6 as my neighbour bought the Sun. I cringed inwardly, and haven't stopped feeling the same since. I have 5 nieces 3 nephews and my own 2 sons.....I hope they could grow up without seeing images of women objectified like this. Clearly I am not showing this to them but at some point I know they will. Does anyone else feel the same?

OP posts:
bebanjo · 11/09/2012 23:31

if a topless model in a paper is porn then maybe you could stop bying it and they would not have your money to print more.
if it is porn what about all the paintings, sculptures ect of women showing there breasts?
some men and some women like to look at breasts, so what.
no one make these women pose for the photos and they are well paid.

DuelingFanjo · 11/09/2012 23:38

I would like to walk down the street with my breasts out safe in the knowledge that I

A. Won't be arrested for indecent exposure
B. won't be subjected to lewd or threatening comments.

Things like page three make this an impossibility.

Consuelaa · 12/09/2012 00:04

I agree Dueling, but I don't think banning page 3 would achieve that. I think we would need to become less prudish not more prudish if breasts are to become more accepted.

SkaterGrrrrl · 12/09/2012 08:39

Consuelaa, the feminist objection has nothing to do with prudery. I am a feminist. Nudity is great. Breasts are great. Women's bodies are glorious. Sex is glorious.

The problem is context. My objection is: that by casually including a soft porn picture of a young woman in a hugely influential popular daily newspaper, The Sun is sending out a powerful message to every British woman: 'You are just a sex object. You are just a pair of tits. Don't go getting all uppity and think that we men regard you as human because we don't. You are here for my gratification & delight. Woman, know thy place!'

emcwill74 · 12/09/2012 09:14

Exactly SkaterGrrrrl!! So fed up of being told I am prude by people who don't know me from Adam, or Eve. No one that knows me would call me a prude and assuming this because I object to page 3 does nothing but demonstrate a complete failure to understand the issues involved.

bebanjo - no, not all art, sculpture etc is porn. As SkaterGrrrrl says, the key word here is context. The context for page 3 is a woman with her tits our for men to have a chuckle/wank over. How is that that something that fits in a newspaper? Obviously I don't buy it, and not everyone that buys the Sun does so for page 3 either, I doubt most people would miss it. But these arguments have been explained in this thread over and over and over again on this page alone.

head meet desk: bang, bang, bang

emcwill74 · 12/09/2012 09:16

OK, I take that back somewhat, we'd moved on a page before bebanjo posted. Even so...

achillea · 12/09/2012 09:24

Is anyone going to start a MN campaign? Nobody else is going to sort these misogynistic cretins out.

emcwill74 · 12/09/2012 09:29

So wish MN would achillea! In the mean time have you signed this? Do leave a comment when you sign if you haven't already. There is such passion for it on twitter. I know that is hardly a cornerstone of British democracy but it does give a measure of the amount of people who feel really strongly that it has to go!

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 12/09/2012 09:35

Oooh choicy choicy choicy choicy choice choice Smile

Don't you think it's good for equality that woman have the choice to be a stripper or a topless model if they wanted?

No.

Make whatever choices you want. Some choices are shit though and are actively bad for equality.

Isn't feminism supposed to be about choice?

Well, some strands of feminism are. This is the sort of feminism which men love because it doesn't challenge their behaviour or attitudes at all - they get to say 'I'm a feminist tooooo' while continuing to objectify women.

Meanwhile, some of us are more concerned with ending the oppression of women. That won't happen while we're still considered the sex class.

And before you all start, I'm well aware that p3 is not the worst thing out there by a long shot, but because it's such an institution, banning it (by which I mean move it to the top shelf where it belongs) would send a powerful symbolic message.

DuelingFanjo · 12/09/2012 10:00

"I agree Dueling, but I don't think banning page 3 would achieve that. I think we would need to become less prudish not more prudish if breasts are to become more accepted."

not liking page three has nothing to do with being prudish. Society needs to sexulise breasts less.

SomersetONeil · 12/09/2012 10:04

"if a topless model in a paper is porn then maybe you could stop bying it and they would not have your money to print more."

Ah, so that's where I've been going wrong. Buying it..... Aaaahhhhhhhh. I see.

So... I should stop buying it? Right. OK. Shit. I hadn't quite factored that in. Best get my head around this Whole New Concept.

Is it just me, or are some contributors to this thread a bit deficient... ? Hmm

Artfulbetrayal · 12/09/2012 11:07

Well said PlentyofPubGardens
Page 3 is tame porn but it is not exceptable to have in newspaper, kids can see on the breakfast table.
I am not ashamed of the human body but it depiction in this media is unbalance, sends confusing messages about what is exceptable and out dated. They have a watershed on Tv and film rating board to protect children from viewing inappropriate stuff but any kid can be sent to the corner shop to pick up one of these papers for his Dad.
It is the on the road to pornville for boys and it seen as ok.

achillea · 12/09/2012 18:35

I have duly signed the No More Page 3 campaign.

www.change.org/nomorepage3

I feel better now.

emcwill74 · 12/09/2012 19:32

To make you feel better still achillea: today alone another 2,200 people have also signed it Smile

Consuelaa · 14/09/2012 01:06

*Don't you think it's good for equality that woman have the choice to be a stripper or a topless model if they wanted?

No.*

So you think women should have choices, but only choices that mainstream feminism agrees with? Women are not all the same and some might make choices others might not like can't you accept that? Feminists don't speak on behalf of every single woman in the country.

Page 3 is tame porn but it is not exceptable to have in newspaper,

tbh I wouldn't even call The Sun a newspaper I would call it a comic or a piece of trash. And it seems to have a bit of a reputation for being trash anyway it's not as if it's a broadsheet or anything people are going to take seriously.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 14/09/2012 07:46

Not at all. As I said, do what you like. Some choices are shit, that's all.

Do you really expect feminists (or anyone else for that matter) to not have an opinion on anything anyone does just because it's a choice they made?

achillea · 14/09/2012 08:42

That's great news, looks like we don't actually need a mumsnet campaign anyway.

I wonder how many people would sign a petition to promote page 3 consuela? This issue isn't about feminists, it is about respect.

dysfunctionalme · 14/09/2012 08:43

GhostShip I didn't say brain dead, I said brain damaged. Your many highly emotional posts reveal a slippery grasp on language as well as reality. However much you enjoy posing topless in order to support your ailing mother does not mean that all Page 3 girls are making informed choices.

catwoo · 14/09/2012 09:24

'The "don't buy it" argument misses the point. If you believe something is wrong, damaging to society, you don't stand by and let others get on with it.'

It is the point it is exactly* the point. In a free society we live and let live even if we don't approve.if you are not posing for the paper and not reading it, then butt out!

GoldShip · 14/09/2012 11:10

Dysfunctional - Wow. So yet again you've insulted me. Are you capable of posting without getting personal?

Your highly insulting posts suggest you've got a very slippery grasp on how to debate. Calling names and insulting people isn't the way to go.

Some of my posts have been emotional. It's an emotive subject for me. What's your excuse?

AllPastYears · 14/09/2012 11:16

"In a free society we live and let live even if we don't approve"

No we don't! We disapprove of all sorts of things, and in some cases step in to stop them, or in others get the law changed to ban them. Child labour? Slave wages? Tenants' rights? Lower pay for women doing the same job as men? People don't always stand by and say, "It's their choice, let them get on with it."

emcwill74 · 14/09/2012 11:36

catwoo - would you say the same thing if the Sun had on page 3 a 'gay of the day', or 'daily jew'? A picture of someone from any particular social/sexual/ethnic group with text that reinforces stereotypes about them and mocks them? Perhaps the 'gay of the day' could be a man extending a limp-wristed hand and wearing a sailor cap? And we could all laugh and make homophobic comments about him because he's gay! What larks! And when kids saw that they could start taking the piss out of gay people in the playground? That would be so hilarious and acceptable wouldn't it? And if anyone disliked it they could just butt out?

emcwill74 · 14/09/2012 11:41

In fact - catwoo - I'm starting to see your point. I mean, if a man punches his partner in the face, why should he go to prison? In a free society we live and let live even if we don't approve. If you are not the one being punched then butt out!

catwoo · 14/09/2012 11:49

That's different emcwill. There is a victim, a non-consenting party in your scenario.

emcwill74 · 14/09/2012 11:51

But I am a non-consenting party to the sexism that directly affects me and is reinforced and normalised by page 3. And you haven't answered my first post - if a gay man consented to having such a photo taken, would that scenario be OK?