To think the term "rudeness" is outdated

[EclecticShock]

Now that we live in a multicultural society with lots of different social rules. Do you think the term "rudeness" as in not aligning yourself with society values is outdated? I believe there needs to be more tolerance towards others and more emphasis on "getting along" rather than segregating.

Aibu?

Surely living in close proximity to people gives even more reason to not be rude?

I'm not talking about race, culture differs within the uk white middle class for example. It's not about race, it's about people having different norms and being accepting to a degree when it comes to things that don't really impact others.

If it was possible to understand everything that offends people all the them, I'm sure there would be less rudeness :)

Yes culture varies within a society, and even within one class such as the middle class.

That's why thinking that we could all get along and 'relax' and stop finding some things rude when they don't bother someone else sin't going to happen.

And it CAN also be down to race/religion issues to. Your example of the Muslim man who refuses to shale hands with a woman is a very good example of that. I know a lot of people who would find that extremely rude....

But ElectricShockwhich of those things that you want us to be more tolerant of don't impact anyone?

The refusing to shake a womans hand has an impact
The pushing in line has an impact

I'd define bad behaviour as someone behaving in a way that they know will cause offence or discomfort to others.

Although I'd agree that it's sometimes hard to tell if someone's doing it deliberately, or if they're just ignorant, as in suzikettles queuing example.

And what seems minor to one person can be a whole lot more important to another. But I would guess that people are a lot more open about what they consider rude when posting on Mumsnet, than they are in real life...

All the time... Not them.

Some people think it's acceptable to litter. I very recently told a group of teenage girls to pick their litter up and put it in the bin. I said exactly the same to a group of foreign tourists...

But EclecticShock, you can't know everything that people will find rude.

What would work is for people to realize 'oh that's rude in my books' and be able to let go and get on with their life wo spending hours on MN revisiting how awful it was for so and so not to have send a card for their b'day.
But then that's very hard and not accessible to most people most of the time (I include myself in there before you ask!)

If a Jewish guy doesn't shake my hand because of his own norms, I'm not going to be offended. If someone doesn't drink on a night out, I won't be offended. If someone doesn't eat my food, I won't be offended, same if they sit next to me on bus or restaurant or walk behind me too close or touch me by accident or ask me when I'm having another child or tell me how much they earn or they tell me they parent in a certain way or if they don't agree with working mothers or breastfeeding. I won't be offended. It doesn't belittle my choices. They can do as they please and so can I. The beauty of tolerance :)

Agree lady, that was my point.

Letting it go sometimes is important and letting people live as by wish too. Littering ofcourse is detrimental to society not just "rude"z. Something's are detrimental to society and not acceptable. Some things just piss people off and are seen to be rude...

seems to mean we should adopt other people's ideas of what is rude or not

I don't really want to do that, though I do it when I visit other countries of course out of respect

i think you see my point

i guess that rudeness is the opposite of politeness and there are cultures with what I think is called positive politeness, where politeness is shown as taking an active interest in other people, and there is negative politeness, where politeness is shown by not disturbing other people and giving them more "space". if we can't even agree about how to be polite in a general sense, of course we will not agree about " grey areas "!

Well on paper I will agree with you (with a question mark re the shaking the hands. It would depend A LOT on his attitude to women in general, esp when in business situation etc...).

But if I am very honest, my first reaction will probably be 'Oh No, how can you do that?' or 'How on earth can you ask that?'. It's all down to what we have been taught as children that is rude or not (and that is deeply seated even when you want to change it). Or because I, as most other people, have my own insecurities and that the question re bfing for example might have hit a very raw nerve. Hence 1- the reaction of reject and 2- the fact it's easier to say the other person is rude (therefore it's their fault) rather than facing my own issues.

As we all ave to deal with that, I assume you will always get that sort of reactions.

Yes, it's very difficult to agree on concepts like politeness and rudeness, hence my thread and my persuasion towards giving people benefit of the doubt :)

See I find a bloke refusing to shake a womans hand belittling especially if it is in a business setting
I find people walking too close behind me irritating and if they get close enough to accidentally touch even more irritating. Especially if there is no need to be that close I like my personal space

If a person... Not just men, cannot shake your hand and uphold their personal belief or religion, why would you be offended. Surely, doesnt their faith come before a social norm of Hand shaking?

I guess I'm getting at the "professionally offended" and "all about me and my feelings" attitude that is apparent on mn some times.

yabvvvvu people can be rude whatever their culture. Rudeness for me is nothing to do with accepting other peoples culture, but all to do with manners, and being polite, something that is applicable across cultures and countries.

i am all for the benefit of the doubt! i personally think that what matters most in this case is the intention and attitude of the person, you can say please and thank you as if you were spitting or not say it but ask with a smile, for example. I'd prefer the latter, but then again I am not British so I haven't had my Ps and Qs drummed into me!

but eclectic you have to put yourself in the other position, how far you go when in other majority cultures where you accomodate them to show respect

the other person is expecting you to respect their culture while not respecting yours

Piglet, manners is cultural?

My point is stop expecting such high levels of accuracy with regards to people upholding your society norms.

Why is the concept of tolerance and benefit of doubt so hard to get across? Is that not part of most successful cultures and societies?