To get annoyed by Mummy Businesses

[NeilFan]

You know the type cake making, knitting, cup cakes, carding etc. Generally SAHMs whos kids are now at school and feel the need to go back into work but can't really be bothered. They pick up some hobby that people have diplomaticaly said they are good at and think it can be a business. Only know one person who actually has a talent for their business choice, all of the others would be better just asking for cash directly rather than palming off sub standard products onto polite friends. Same goes for all of that pampered chef and candle party lot who are even more deluded. My first post on mumsnet but this stuff really annoys me!

I employ artists. Therefore I am A Good Person.

What makes me sad is the demise of decent skilled crafts that we all need, such as quality hand knitting, dressmaking and curtain making, fabric conservation and china restoration, and the way it has been replaced with silly lick and stick type crafts that look as though Year 5 were let loose in Hobbycraft, which we are then all forced to buy at fetes and so on.

Get a grip, ladies. You're like a bunch of undereducated Victorian biddies trying to fill the day.

Yy Wordfactory and I agree, having been hit with that particular mallet a few times. I do like to think that in the end, if you keep going, you will always be ahead of those who undercut with inferior crap, so you will win in the end.

Having said that there have been times that we've been both undercut and ripped off and I have, for a short while, been really quite angry!

er why are there two threads on this? Asking once wasn't enough?

Oh you sound lovely OP, just an absolute pleasure and joy, with such a witty and humane tongue.

I know the word 'mumpreneur' makes me want to vomit.

Someone I know has one of those ubiquitous, short-lived, babies' toy shops, all sustainable non-plastic etc. It's a nice little business. She's doing ok for now.

But she won't stop referring to herself as a mumpreneur, and couching everything in terms of this being a mummy business, mum-friendly, aren't women in business special etc. FUCK OFF it is a normal BUSINESS the fact that she is a woman and a mother is totally irrelevant.

Not sure the Pampered Chef or Usbourne card or whatever are deluded - the people who I know who did have made a decent amount of money for their effort, raised money for charity and haven't been pushy at all. If you do it properly you can't and won't be constantly tapping your friends. If they are your only clientele you won't make any money so you have be be more businesslike about it. It wouldn't suit me but if others want to I don't see the problem.

As for the hobbyists, have you seen Esty and Folksy and the other craft websites? They are very large and apparently successful just because there is a market out there for handmade stuff. Of course there will be some who are a bit rubbish and have to ask people to buy things but ime, they won't be doing it for long before they get bored of working for nothing and do something else.

Besides, it could be worse, they could work in call centres and be phoning those of us who work from home all day with stupid offers to claim back non existent PPI.

Hope the OP doesn't work in a call centre!

Oh dear, is this really the sisterhood?

If someone can produce a saleable item and someone wants to buy it that's business, be it a car or a cupcake.

Don't be so bitchy.

I do think the Tupperware evening model is annoying. Turning up at soneone's house and feeling obliged to shell out over the odds for Tupperware / jewellery / Virgin Vie / Jamie Oliver cookware / whatever is grim.

But mums or anybody else flogging their stuff to people who want it is very different.

I work three days a week in an office I also bake and sell cakes. I'm fully booked for the next three months. The money I earn from the cakes takes my part time wage back up to previous full time wage and then some. I pay tax on the profit I make. I have never bothered my friends to place orders (although I am guilty of asking them to share my Facebook page ).

Your problem appears to be the mums you know who do this aren't very good at it and you have an inability to say no.

I am so with both Wordfactory and Stonerose: hobbyists with delusions of talent really do damage the livelihood of other people. Every muppet thinks that s/he can write a book and 99% of them are wrong; nowadays, unfortunately, about 66 % of those who could barely write 'bum' on a wall without assistance are being given publishing deals that will make them no money, and writers who can actually write are being paid less and less, because the publishers are going, oh well someone else will do it for 50p. This, of course, damages the publishing market in the long run because the public are less and less keen to pay for crap.

As to the crap crafters (assembling kiddicraft bead kits and trying to flog the results etc) what they do is fuck up entire markets. Because unless some sort of quality control is practiced by the market manager, the percentage of stalls taken over by people who have followed the instructions for the Lovely Project You Can Make At HOme in this month's Naice Little Handicraft Mag and spanked the plastic in Hobbycraft increases slowly until the buyers just stop coming, because they can't be bothered to wade through the shit in the hope of finding something that's original/beautiful/well made.

I make jewellery and I'm a mum so I suppose I'm in this camp.

I stay at home 2 days a week to run my crappy business, go and work for someone else the rest of the time.

My turnover was 11 grand last year. Supplements my other income fantastically and I do something I enjoy. I'm certainly not lazy

And I have a Facebook page

TF: Well then you are presumably making nice stuff at a fair price, so not the sort of person some of us are pissed off about.

Mind you, when it comes to 'craft fairs' I have a category I hate even more, and that's the people who buy in a lot of 'ethnic' stuff and sell it very cheaply when it's almost certainly been made by slave labour.

Yes I do get pissed off with people in my field starting a business, nicking my designs, even using my photographs that I've taken myself and passing them off as their own work and then selling them for a pittance. They probably make 25p profit and are only doing it for a hobby.

I do it to make money, pure and simple to put meat and potatoes on the table. It's a bonus that I actually enjoy it

As with everything you get what you pay for. If you aren't prepared to fork out for something well made you can't complain when it is made by somebody with delusions of talent.

I am doing a City and Guilds course in patchwork and quilting. One of the aims of the course (although not why I am doing) is to make it possible for you to make a business from it. When we have a design brief we have to do costings and it is unlikely you would get even the smallest item for less than £50 because it is hand made to the very high standards. Somebody in my group did a tea cosy and by the time all the materials and the cost of the time to make it (even at minimum wage) it came out at £75. That is not the sort of thing you would take to a craft fair because people there wouldn't be prepared to pay for it. Well not unless it was one of the upmarket craft fairs like Living Crafts or one of the ones are the big venues like Olympia.

I am not sure that there is much overlap. I don't think the sort of people that go to the local craft fairs to get something pwetty but relatively cheap are the same people that go to the big craft fairs for quality stuff. I know, that despite being a crafter, it is unlikely I would find something I wanted at the local church hall market, not that I couldn't make myself. I am more likely to look on the internet craft sites for stuff that I can't make

And tbh, I don't think the crap crafters last that long. They might take a stall once, maybe twice, but when they don't even cover the cost of their table they don't bother again. Same with paying to list things on the internet. If they don't sell they won't bother relisting. They are pretty self limiting as 'business people'.

I agree with everything you said bertha.

Incidentally, I went to a craft fair in Brixton a couple of months ago. It's not really my thing but I was at a loose end one Saturday.

I couldn't believe the high standard of some of the things. I also couldn't afford some of it, not that it was overpriced, it was just fairly priced for the amount of work that had gone into it.

I don't mind mums (or anyone else) trying to make a few quid from selling stuff.

I do mind friends and acquaintances asking me to buy stuff they have made or are selling or in some way implying that I ought to because they are my mate. I'll buy what I want to, thanks.

Totally separate things.

I am the first to admit I am rubbish with spelling and grammar. I always have been and always will be, so Artist or artist, whatever, I paint on canvas for a living. If you can read and understand my posts I am happy with that, but sorry if it's a problem for you.

ChippingInNeedsCoffee: Of course not everyone loves my Art/art (whatever). People who buy watercolour landscapes do not buy my work, and vice versa.

It sells though, very well. That is why I paint, do events, and have been for years. I also have work in Galleries, and it sells there too. 99% of galleries will not put shit work for sale in their galleries.

I could link to at least five people who have over the last year or so have appeared at events I do selling paintings very similar to mine. They are bad paintings though so not bothered by them, but it does not present a good image to the public for me trading alongside them. If people see you making money they soon jump on the bandwagon.

I am absolutely not a snob...I used to paint crap (I have lots of photos of embarrassingly awful paintings I have done). I am self taught, no uni or any qualification in art. The difference is I never tried to sell the crap I painted. It hung in my house until I binned it.

Slightly off topic but the stand I have seen take the most money after doing hundreds of events...a group of young lads selling microfiber boxer shorts. Three pairs for a tenner. They took thousands over three days. Might bin the art and look in to importing, haha! [:)]

99% of galleries will not put shit work for sale in their galleries.

So what's the problem stone?

btw I'm a journalist. Most people think they can do what I do. They can't. I don't get upset about it because I'm not in competition with people who write things for newsletters or niche publications, probably for no money or at a loss.

Freelance rates are coming down and at every press conference I go to there are more and more freelances. But that doesn't mean they'll get commissions.

I do agree with someone upthread who said that the intern was bringing rates down. I don't blame the intern; I blame greedy employers who are interested in fobbing off shit products for the highest profit margin. But they're everywhere - have a look at G4S.

And if you were honest sorry if it's a problem for you isn't true, is it?

You're not sorry are you? But that's okay, you're entitled to feel how you want. I just don't understand how people selling or giving away inferior products to you affects you.

Your argument appears to be with people who attend the places you sell at but have no taste.

There's no accounting for taste.

Actually, lots of people attend press conferences for the free food and wine, which I'm not going to begrudge them either.

limitedperiodonly:

99% of galleries will not put shit work for sale in their galleries. By that I meant I have some of my work in galleries and therefore I am pretty sure it is good art other than me just thinking it is good (it was suggested I may not be any good or as good as I appear to think I am). The sellers who appear with work similar to mine absolutely do not have any work in galleries because it is bad art, art they should not be trying to sell at the prices they are asking.

sorry if it's a problem for you. A sarcastic comment but with an element of truth. I am embarrassed/frustrated with my inability to spell and use grammar correctly. Something I should take the time to learn but life gets in the way of such things. I don't think it is relevant to the discussion though, the comment about it was a personal snipe at me rather than a reaction to my opinions.

I totally agree there is no accounting for taste. I appreciate talented craftspeople, even when their crafts are not to my taste. It's the people who are selling badly made or chucked together products that annoy me. Its a bloody hard sell at the moment and these sellers never do well, but I am sure many members of the public will walk round and think it's not really worth bothering coming back the next year. That does/will have an impact of the sellers who have worked hard to establish a successful business.

I am with you on people thinking they can do what you do. I often hear 'get one of her cards, you could do that' at events. They may well be able to copy one of my paintings but it is the ideas and creativity behind it that has led me to being successful. They can't steal that from me!!

I work part time, am a single mum and am asked to make cup cakes, giant Pom poms, nappy cakes etc all at cost, cos I like doing it. Do you hate me too

it does get tiresome.. it really does! some are admirable but 99% of it that you come across is crap!

one mum I know draws pictures of clocks then animates them so you can draw hands on them with marker to teach your kid the time! I mean WTF! she seriously sees this as a business and we have to listen to her give talks and domos of her "product" then you get chased around all evening which makes me loose my wine glass being asked if you're gonna buy some!

and tatty jewelry! which you can't do anything with - looks like stuff I used to make for my mum when I was 10! can't even charity shop it cause they wouldn't be able to sell it!

the thing is, A buys B's wipe clean tell the time "product", B buys C's tatty jewelry, C buys D's cupcakes and D hires A to do the face painting at her kid's party

• NOONE IN THIS GROUP IS MAKING ANY MONEY - ITS THE SAME COUPLE OF NOTES BEING PASSED BACK ROUND AND ROUND THE SAME FRIENDSHIP GROUP!

op, I agree ... sorry everyone, it isn't that I am criticising the women personally.

I just feel there are a LOT of them and if you are of a certain age you get asked a LOT if you want to buy cupcakes or jam or scented stuff. no, i don't! yes I say no - but it does get a bit wearisome constantly being asked. and yes i think a lot of it is tat