To expect DH to do more?

[Sastra]

I feel like I do much more round the house than DH. He does the washing up, but that's about it.

Problem is that he's really messy; if he takes the milk about of the fridge, he doesn't put it back, leaves lids off things, doesn't put rubbish straight in the bin. He leaves yeaterday's clothes on the floor and wet towels too.

We've had conversations about it numerous times and he says he'll try and do better, but nothing changes. He is a bit of a daydreamer and it's as if he zones out and goes into auto pilot.

Things have come to a head as we're moving next sat. We don't have time off during the week, so I really wanted stuff sorted and the majority of stuff packed this weekend (oh, an he's a fucking hoarder so we can't throw anything away without him studying it for 20 minutes first). He knows how stressed I am about getting everything sorted, but tries to reassure me by saying, don't worry, it'll all be fine.

I think what I struggle with is the fact that we clearly have different expectations of what clean and tidy is - I just want the house cleaned every week an the bloody bed made every day, and I'm sick of clearing his stuff up - surely not too much to ask?!

I know I could leave it but he really would do it and id be the one who suffered. He says that he will do stuff and he'll get round to it - but then he gets distracted. So I do it, then he gets pissy and it starts an argument.

I'm at the end of my tether. I'm 25 weeks pregnant and shattered and still nauseous, but instead of helping me pack for the whole yesterday he read the fucking Guardian from cover to cover (he did some packing, but we've hardly made a dent).

:-(

LRD yes the towel thing bothers me, because unlike DP, I like a nice fluffy clean towel (incidentally an ex boyfriend was the same with the towels as were his brothers - we all lived together - do some people have different sense receivers in their skin that cold wet towels feel the same? They all said 'what difference does it make if you are wet already ).

So with DP we have different colour towels. They all get washed once a week but if DP wants to keep his colour wet and on the floor then that's up to him. Mine, on the other, hand are hung up and dried nicely for my use and my use only!

And pictish it very nearly was a deal breaker but as i said we found a way round it, which is DP pays all the bills and i either give up work/work part time or he pay a cleaner.

Fruity I agree with the not knowing. DP was never allowed to do anything growing up as his mum told him he would do it wrong anyway. So he never learnt. We have had bleach all over the floor and the bottom of our socks bleached etc. And then everytime he does do something (monumentally badly) if i correct it or try to show him about separating colours etc He gets very defensive. Same with cooking. I try to explain i wasn't born knowing these things but had to learn them. He also is horrified at the effort of doing things properly and just cannot see why anyone would bother as it 'looks no different'.

Granted he does appreciate what i do tho and now knows it isn't normal for your bed covers and pants to itch

It's interesting, Someone further down the thread mentioned feminist mothers. I suspect my own feminist mother is the root of my own issues with cleaning. She never did anything in the house ( not just because she was feminist, it's now clear for me to see) and from an young age we did it ourselves (washing own school uniform from 6, sorting out own food) but essentially lived in squalor. I think because of this I feel embarrassed about mess, and messiness/ dirt makes me feel quite uncontained. So I think I'd be the same of I were a man/was in a same sex relationship etc of you see what I mean.

Oh, gosh, sorry, I wasn't actually trying to quiz you spuddy, I just meant to give an example of how what matters if finding something that works so there is no disrespect, whatever that happens to be for individuals.

sastra - that is interesting, I think I'm similar. Mum isn't feminist but is a right slob, so I mind it more.

Yup blame your mother, its her fault you have no backbone

I think a lot of the problem is generational - no matter DP's liberal/left views, he grew up in a world where men really didn't do much housework or ran households - he never learned how to do stuff, and has lived with a certain degree of squalor as an adult. I too have had the 'look, I had to learn how to do this, I wasn't born knowing it' conversation.

But it's hard to change things. Something I've noticed with DP is that he lives in a state of permanent cognitive dissonance re: housework and household stuff. He doesn't think it's difficult (after all, no one does a degree in housework, do they?) - he always underestimates how long it will take him to do something, or the amount of effort involved. So when he DOES do something, he's often angry that actually it takes a while, requires some physical effort and a bit of skill.

So there's a conflict there that he seems to live with - he thinks of housework as easy, low status 'not a big deal' stuff (so when I make a fuss, I'm being a naggy unreasonable cow) - and yet he finds it hard to do and puts it off.

OP, my DP was a man who really didn't pick up after himself, and who kind of wafted though the day on his own schedule (never bothered with meals, never ate until he was STARVING and then ate rubbish etc) - fatherhood was a massive, massive challenge for him. I remember at one point sobbing at him and saying I didn't want him to tell me he loved me, I wanted him to HELP me. To do stuff. Once you have a baby, you really want your partner to be a parent - not another child. IME, anyway.

Shera, at no point was I attempting to attribute blame. I was merely reflecting on an insight I'd had about my own attitudes to housekeeping.

its pointless saying things like ' go on strike, your not his mum' etc. i bet alot of people dont expect thei partners to tidy up after them. you just do it because its your niggle for it to be clean and tidy. you cant turn around and start making up things such as he expects me to do it or she does a crappy job so i ended up doing it.

Hey, that's a bit harsh! She wasn't blaming her mother - she just explained how she responded.

Lol, My friend was having a rant about her dh the other day & said she thought she'd got a duff one to which I replied no my sweet, you have an average one!

To all you ladies who manage to get your other half to do something, well done & I applaud you -me & most, in fact no, make that all, the other women I know have a bloke that does sweet FA unless they are asked yes there is the magic word-I keep wondering who asks me, I think he thinks there is fairy in the house who leaves me a list each day.........

Your DH is lazy,and the way I see it he is getting a good deal out of this. So what if you where raised with traditional gender roles, is he too stupid to know how to clean and tidy up after himself. It is not rocket science. Either make a change or put up and shutup in the roles you are both happy to be in.

OP:I was merely reflecting on an insight I'd had about my own attitudes to housekeeping.

ffs

The problem with some people is they make a rod for their own back. If you have clear expectations from each other when you move in that you will do the house work fifty fifty that is what usually happens.If you begin a relationship and do everything for your DH then that's you set for the next 30 years. It is not that they cant do it but if someone is willing to dot it after a period of time why lift a finger as muggins will eventually. Analysing your child hood wont help you love, you made a choice to live your life as it is.

And sometimes things change, or people put on a front that they can't maintain.

Life isn't that clearcut, and neither are people.

My husband is no where near as bad and I feel it's down to expectations. His mum is brill but inclined to do everything for him and his brother. They were both late leaving home and my DP needs a gentle prod to a heavy hint to do certain things. And I have a regular meltdown over the state he leaves cupboards in (I opened no less than three cupboards yesterday to find they looked like they'd been ransacked).

Even if your partner grew up having his ass wiped by his mother until adulthood, why do their women carry this on. Strange

You can expect all you like does not mean you will get it, if children can understand that why not an adult male.

shera, are you quite young? You sound very naive! Loads of people move in, get married, whatever, and find their expectations and attitudes change. It's a normal process.

It is very common for people to be on 'best behaviour' when they first get together, and in those early stages you can also glide over a lot of issues because you're still so newly in love.

There are quite a lot of studies about relationship dynamics, and as you would expect, it's pretty common for these dynamics to change as relationships wear on and especially after children. If the OP can't expect him to change what else do you think she can do?! What else do you think the rest of us do?

I had similar OP. I gradually engineered situtations in which he had no choice but to make the effort. IMO, I work the same hours, and ear the same money therefore house needed to be 50-50. It took over 10 years but it did work in the end. For example:-

• No ironed shirts ... oops I need a really long shower, just at the time you need to leave for work so you can either wear it unironed or do it yourself
• No dinner cooked and prepared ... oops I worked late then went to the gym so won't be home til about 9 ... in which case I'll be asking what's for dinner, just like he would do to me
• Washing up not done ... oh well. never mind. I'll just prepare myself a drink then and wash up my own cup, that way I'll be OK when he gets home desperate for a cuppa and can't have one without washing up.

You're not going to teach your child to do thing on it's own by doing everything for them. This situation is the same, don't pander to the laziness. But, it's hard to live with the mess in the 10 year plan!!

LRDtheFeministDragon Of course dynamics change over time in a relationship but why do so many women settle and accept this nonsense, the excuses being used for their partners behaviour baffles me.

It is worse if both are contributing to the house hold, why should one person bare most of the the brunt of the workload

what ldr and pictish have said, he is NOT a child and he needs to learn to clear up after himself!

men like this are precisely why i am raising my 4 boys to HELP out around the house, they are involved in the tidying and the cleaning up etc, in our house we all make the mess so we all help tidy it up, i am not a dogs body or servant!

yes i am sahm and as such more of the housework falls to me when dp is at work, but when he is at home its all hands on deck and he pitches just as much as i do!

I have seen threads where lots of women seem to be 'settling' and making excuses for their partners' behaviour, but TBH I didn't think this was particularly one of them.

I hope the OP is doing well today.

Well today, we discovered that there's an infestation of rats in my office at work. I just speechless

5madthings Bravo i have three brothers who where raised to do just the same they are younger than me and live at home, and are a credit as they pull their weight in the home so it does not all rest on one person. That includes cooking cleaning whatever, that is why it is so bizarre to me when people accept this. If your partner was single im sure he would manage so why cant he as part of a couple

just concentrate on packing your stuff and leave his stuff completely. Leave his milk out, leave his pants out, leave his wet towels on the floor. Don't do anything for him at all. Finish all your jobs then get out of the house and put your feet up at your friends houses or in a cafe. If you are at home, get your nose stuck into a book. Tell him you are exhausted after all your hard work packing and so need to rest.

In your new house buy him a large box. Throw everything he leaves around in the box - trainers, bills, sweetie wrappers, pants etc.

Also do get him to pay a cleaner once the baby is born.

At new house get one box out for him each week and tell him if it's not sorted through in 7 days you will bin that specific box. Give the date and time it will be binned - so he knows his deadline. Tell him that he needs to do this for you as you are at your wits end. You are helping him help himself. Work your way through all his storage boxes over a number of months this way and yes do actually throw boxes away if he can't be arsed.