To expect DH to do more?

[Sastra]

I feel like I do much more round the house than DH. He does the washing up, but that's about it.

Problem is that he's really messy; if he takes the milk about of the fridge, he doesn't put it back, leaves lids off things, doesn't put rubbish straight in the bin. He leaves yeaterday's clothes on the floor and wet towels too.

We've had conversations about it numerous times and he says he'll try and do better, but nothing changes. He is a bit of a daydreamer and it's as if he zones out and goes into auto pilot.

Things have come to a head as we're moving next sat. We don't have time off during the week, so I really wanted stuff sorted and the majority of stuff packed this weekend (oh, an he's a fucking hoarder so we can't throw anything away without him studying it for 20 minutes first). He knows how stressed I am about getting everything sorted, but tries to reassure me by saying, don't worry, it'll all be fine.

I think what I struggle with is the fact that we clearly have different expectations of what clean and tidy is - I just want the house cleaned every week an the bloody bed made every day, and I'm sick of clearing his stuff up - surely not too much to ask?!

I know I could leave it but he really would do it and id be the one who suffered. He says that he will do stuff and he'll get round to it - but then he gets distracted. So I do it, then he gets pissy and it starts an argument.

I'm at the end of my tether. I'm 25 weeks pregnant and shattered and still nauseous, but instead of helping me pack for the whole yesterday he read the fucking Guardian from cover to cover (he did some packing, but we've hardly made a dent).

:-(

Pack the stuff you want to take: your stuff, plus any useful household stuff, books, etc. (Obviously he should be doing half or actually more - given you are pregnant - of this, but this is more of a Gesture.) Leave his stuff. It's not your problem.

And consider whether you can really face the grind of co-parenting with this quite horrid-sounding man.

I have decided that I am laid back and dreamy...so I can fully expect my husband to clean up after me like a maid. I will just leave everything at my backside and contemplate my navel.
That's ok isn't it? I'm a nice person.

Yep, I am a lovely and Clever Person so I will just be Clever and Vague.

If the OP was working in a job alongside men doing a similar job, but was routinely asked to stay behind each day and do an hour's work, for free, tidying up after them and cleaning up their mess - I'm pretty sure people, including her partner, would see that was unfair.

Now she's pregnant and stressed about moving, and he's not pulling his weight, his response is to tell her not to worry, and then sit and read the Guardian from cover to cover instead of sorting and packing his stuff.

Btw, it doesn't make any difference that it's the Guardian. If he was watching Top Gear or porn or playing computer games, it's still pissing about and leaving the OP to do more than her fair share.

There are different expectations of tidy with some things. not all. Mess is negotiable to some extent, hygiene and anything that poses a risk to you isn't.

So for example milk can't be left out with no lid, especially in summer when temperatures are higher (in theory). It's just plain unacceptable for this to happen, especially as you're pregnant and need to guard against a dicky tummy. Proper care MUST be taken with all food hygiene and rubbish, full stop. On the other hand, it's not the end of the world if he leaves non perishable things out.

Bed making is a different one. Beds don't need to be made every day. Personally I think it's a total waste of time, but accept some people like it. However, in this instance his 'way' is as valid as yours. Changing the sheets, on the other hand, isn't negotiable. This needs to be done at X frequency as a minimum, because it's a hygiene thing rather than a tidiness thing. I dare not venture an optimum figure, for fear of a bunfight, but I think it's reasonable for even a low maintenance person to accept the need for changing sheets every fortnight as a minimum.

Wet towels need to be hung up for reasons of practicality- they won't dry otherwise- but he can do what he wants with his dirty clothes provided they're not left somewhere you might fall over them. Anything you might slip on, like a sticky floor, needs cleaning straight away. He shouldn't have to put away every little thing, but he needs to ensure nothing is left where you might trip over it and, eventually, where the baby might get it.

LRD i disagree. With regards to my DP, his expectations are way lower than anyone i have ever met. He had lived alone for 10 yrs and in the 2 years he had lived in the flat he had never cleaned the bathroom, it stank of pee there was wee all over the floor. He honestly doesn't notice if things are clean or not. He cannot seem to smell things. He is quite happy wearing dirty pants for days etc. It would never occur to him to expect me to it any more than he would do it himself.

I have left the bathroom for months and the washing up/kitchen for weeks. He was happy to eat out every night/have takeaways.

So yes, while unusual, low expectations are not unheard of. In some there really is a hierarchy of perception about what is dirty.

I partly agree, flangelina - you're right it's possible to argue making a bed isn't as black-and-white as other stuff.

But then, the OP lives in the house. Why should she have to live in surroundings that are crap for her? IMO it's a situation where both people need to compromise - eg., if she wants the bed made every day and he never wants to bother, they could do that her way and maybe do something else his way. Or she could accept that on busy weekdays it maybe doesn't matter but on weekends it does, or whatever.

I do believe there are really pretty few areas where there is genuine room for 'different expectations'.

spuddy - wow. Ok, I think he's my 1%. I'm sorry, I am stunned at the idea of a grown man wearing dirty pants for days on end. I just cannot believe that.

I am not denying there are no people like that - but I think it is far, far rarer than some would like to believe. I think what is much more common is people who claim they have different standards from their partner, but when push comes to shove, discover they don't really.

That isn't just my experience (though that's some of it). It's also me being a tedious sanctimonious feminist and reading Wifework, of course.

yep I have that breed of DH too!!

I have chucked his clothes out of window onto the front lawn, I've left his washing in the basket, I've traded sex for him doing stuff around the house. I've not fed him. I go on strike on a monthly basis.

The one that got him shifted was doing the list of chores we do - his was about 3 items!! Bins, garden and dishwasher loading - Not unloading! Mine was everything else. I think based on the face we both work full time it seems to be working for now!

Spuddy sounds a real catch!

Btw - I don't buy the argument of 'you must have known what he was like before so why did you expect him to change/why are you in a relationship with him.'

I don't think most women start relationships by auditioning men on their vacuuming/frequency of bed sheet changing/ability to put rubbish in a bin and then remove binbags from the house/willingness to wash plates before mould grows on them, or flies lay eggs in the food waste/ability to use a washing machine/pay bills on time. And so on. When your eyes meet across a crowded room, it isn't the first thing on your mind. But fast forward ten years, and you might well want to ask the question - why, if we are in an equal relationship based on love, trust and respect, am I cleaning his shit off the toilet while he lies on the sofa watching BBC 4?

It creeps up on you. And your priorities change. I can safely say in the first few weeks of my baby's life, it wasn't DP's taste in music I wanted to rely on - it was his ability to go to the shops and buy some vaguely healthy food that could be made into a meal very quickly, not a packet of crisps and a swiss roll.

Yeah that's what I mean, bed making and anything else that's 'jointly' theirs and isn't a hygiene/safety issue should be compromised on. Like eg length of time that dishes can be left. Some people like to wash straight after eating, others to leave it a while. Provided it's done fast enough that flies don't start buzzing around, either way is equally valid. Another example would be lawn mowing and garden care, though when the DC is a bit older this will also become a safety issue and need doing a lot regardless of either partner's preference.

Well LRD the only way we could stay together was for me to work part time or as now, not at all (i mean paid work) and do it all myself. Otherwise there was no fucking way i was going to live like that or work full time and do it myself. As i said 'fortunately' i was made redundant and couldn't find any work i enjoyed and DP earns enough for all the bills. However, I accept that is very unusual and if this wasn't the case I would have sadly left despite loving him very much.

flan - yes, I'm with you now.

spuddy - I'm certainly not trying to criticize what works for you - I just mean, I think it is quite rare and I think for some people, the 'expectations' thing is wheeled out as a convenient excuse when in reality, the differences in expectations or standards are far, far smaller than the differences in what each partner is prepared to do towards upkeeping those standards.

It's then a thing that needs to be talked through in detail, boring as it is, or else we never know why our partners do what they do.

I second the theory that making the bed every day is a matter of opinion but leaving milk out on the counter is NOT. Also, leaving your pregnant and sick wife to pack while you read the paper from cover to cover is lazy and rude. I can't believe the brass neck on him. Tell him you feel disrespected, taken for granted and sad.

He can't leave stuff lying around when the baby is here. My 18 month old would have him trained in 1/2 hour when she had eaten and/or broken every item in the house.

My dad is really untidy (When making cup of tea leaves trail of open cupboards, milk out, tops not screwed back on etc. etc.). My mum just lets him get on with it and their house is not immaculate.

My MIL's house is immaculate. I assumed FIL must therefore be very, very tidy. Imagine my surprise when he made me a cup of tea one morning, leaving trail of unopened cupboards, milk etc. etc.

My conclusion is therefore that you can either tidy up or not tidy up after another person, but you can't fundamentally make an untidy person tidy.

However, you can focus on the positives, (My dad does make a good cup of coffee, albeit messily) and agree specific tasks that they will do - putting out rubbish, always doing washing up after evening meal etc etc. This will atleast focus your nagging coaching to specific times each day, and, hopefully, minimise general ongoing resentment.

An alternative strategy is aggressive tidying and decluttering. Just throw away any stuff he leaves around.

Ha! Pictish he obviously has a lot more to him than his cleaning habits, and like fruity said it isn't like you start off auditioning someone. You go out together lots and you fall in love, the cleanliness is frustrating but not initially a deal breaker.

If on the other hand he expected me to do the chores and moaned if i didn't i would be out the door. What saved it was the fact he didn't care if i did anything either!

spuddy, I have a DP whose hygiene levels are pretty grim too. Sheet changing - would basically never do it. Seriously. Unless I shouted at him or something like cat vomit happened, where washing the sheets was basically unavoidable. He often has piles of clothes where clean and dirty clothes are mixed up - clean clothes often still a bit damp, so they get that awful trampy piss smell (and he still wears them).

I did the experiement years ago where you don't wash their plates up, just leave them. They are supposed to realise you haven't done them, see the mess and do it themselves, right? Well, after nearly two weeks of dirty plates piled up in the kitchen, I caved in. It was summer, it STANK - and flies had laid eggs in the food waste. I knew the next step was maggots, so I did it. When I tackle him about stuff, he often says he is going to do it, he's just been busy. But, you know, I'm busy too...

I don't think it's my job to compromise with stuff like that, or to 'meet him halfway' or accept that I have one set of standards and he has another etc etc. I just don't. I don't know how come an adult male has such a poor grasp of hygiene.

I agree LRD (as i said i do acknowledge DP is unusual). My Father on the other hand is a monumental arse and sits at home all day and mum works full time and he rings her at work telling her what chores she has to do when she gets home. He is aggressive and nasty and a bully. He does nothing, yet his expectations are a show home like his mum had. But he forgets his mum didn't work outside the home. Dad is happy for mum to pay all the bills AND wants her to do all the cooking and cleaning.

I have told her, and him, that it is outrageous. But each to their own.

That's awful about your dad, spuddy. My dad isn't that bad and does not get nasty about it, but he has those same expectations that my mum really should be doing everything. There's a limit to how much you can tell someone else what you think before you give up and they are both quite set in their ways. But the OP is at such an early stage, and she's only going to need her OH to pitch in more after the baby is born, so hopefully she can get him on track now.

It doesn't sound as if he's being malicious or cruel, just thoughtless, so hopefully it can be sorted out.

fruity no it isn't your job to compromise at all. But it may be your choice to if other things make up for it. For me, as i said, we are lucky with DP's salary and that i hated working outside the home. Otherwise i would have had to sadly leave.

He doesn't sound like 'a daydreamer' he sounds like a teenage boy. Not even picking up his wet towels or putting the milk back into the fridge is just unacceptable. It's slovenly and carries the assumption that other people will tidy up after him.

People are asking how some men people end up with such low standards and so unwilling or unable to clean or cook. It is because we keep having such low expectations. Our DCs see all this. My DD sees her DF cleaning and clearing and treating me with respect. If we had a DS he would see the same. How they behave is dependent on what they see. It is all very well talking about equality but they do what we do not what we say.

I think that's true, and also there's the fact that - let's be honest - if my home is a tip, and people come round, you can bet that virtually everyone from his mum to my mum to the plumber, is going to assume it's 'my' job to tidy it and will judge me, not him.

I bet that is the same for most of us, too.

spuddy, yes, it's good that you could find an arrangement that worked for you. I am still working on mine! We pay for a cleaner to come once a week and that is a lifesaver. Means bathroom and kitchen never get to build up dirt levels to Total Crud. It did take a lot of arguing to get DP to agree to this initially - he didn't want to let 'strangers' into the house to clean. But I was working two jobs, had no free time and it wasn't as if he was doing it.

So that sorts some basic hygiene out - but not the mess/clutter/rubbish/food hygiene/bed linen/personal hygiene. Still, mustn't grumble, eh. Don't want to be thought a 'nag.'