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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Giving money to relatives.

76 replies

Thistledew · 15/07/2012 09:07

My dad has 7 grandchildren. One of them has asked if he can loan/give her some money for course fees that she is struggling with.

Dad feels that he should only give her as much money as he would be prepared to give the other 6 grandchildren if they asked (ie- he can spare £x from his savings - each grandchild could be given 1/7th of that amount).

Do you think this is reasonable? Would you give one grandchild more than their share on the basis that she needs the money and the others have not asked for assistance? Or would you give less than you can afford in this instance to be hypothetically fair to the others?

OP posts:

Bluestocking · 15/07/2012 09:55

Hypothetically speaking, if one GC is bright, hardworking and ambitious and needs money to pay for course fees for a qualification that will (in theory) put them in a better position to be financially independent in the future, and the other GCs are not that way inclined, would it not be reasonable for the grandparent to support that GC with the course fees and not to give the others the equivalent sum, because they won't be investing in themselves?
Thistledew, I am of course not at all suggesting that this is the situation in your family, but just wondering if this would not be a reasonable decision on the part of a grandparent.

Original poster

Thistledew · 15/07/2012 09:55

She is mid 20s, and yes, is where she is because of bad judgment, but I wasn't all that great with money at that age but managed to get myself straight in the end through my own efforts.

The property is let, but it won't sell.

OP posts:

lisaro · 15/07/2012 10:07

I would say to the initial question; treat all fairly. The further information would make me inclined to tell her to bugger off.

Bluestocking · 15/07/2012 10:12

Sorry, wasn't keeping up with the thread. New information inclines me to think that she should stop asking to borrow money and sort herself out!

Dprince · 15/07/2012 10:13

I don't think quint is being harsh at all.
Its all well and good making bad financial decisions, but when its with other peoples money and/or asking for loans from other to bail you out, its quite a different matter.
Lots of people go through this sort of thing and come out ok. Lots of others do not.

Dprince · 15/07/2012 10:18

quacks she isn't standing on her own two feet. The f lacy that she borrowed money. For property development, hasn't made any money, rents it out but can't afford her education fees so is borrowing again shows that she is not independent or on her way to being so.
She is making decisions and asking for others to bail her out.
I suspect the OPs parents see this and are, in part, using the fairness angle so they don't have to keep leanding large sums. They may be worries that down the line she will ask for more and more. Or another GC who needs help, not of their own making, will have to be refused because they have lent so much to another GC. They may also think they won't see this money again.

ENormaSnob · 15/07/2012 10:23

All should be treated fairly IMO.

gamerwidow · 15/07/2012 10:24

I agree with the others that the GC in question seems more keen to get others to bail her out of trouble then stand on her own two feet and it is a pattern she will continue all the time someone is there to hand her more money.

However this is a moot point because the decision to lend isn't in question just the method and with this in mind then an equal split between grandchildren is fairest in case she never pays the money back.

Jiggleballs123 · 15/07/2012 10:35

Personally I don't see a problem giving money to one but not the other depending on the situation and I don't see the need to get all up in arms and offended.

My dad and all of my family have helped eachother out at various different points as and when he had some money and the need was there. Everyones been giving and lending my brother heaps of money lately because he's got himself into a situation. I'm not upset or offended, my dad paid for my car insurance a few years ago when I had ds so that I could get back on the road, many, many eyars ago when my sister was a single parent my brother actually gave my sister a car and unsured it for her when he was a bit more flush. I think that the problem only omes when you would help one person and not another.

This grandchild has asked for the money as she needs it at this times, the others haven't/don't need help.

Jiggleballs123 · 15/07/2012 10:40

Hadn't read all posts the latest information makes me think noones should lend/give her any more this isn't a one off and she's digging herself a hole.

DeckSwabber · 15/07/2012 10:43

The problem is that it isn't obvious what is 'fair'. Do you split equally between children or grandchildren? If there is £100,000 and there are two children and each gets £50,000 (say), that would be fair, but if child X had 1 child of their own and the other child Y had 4 children you could also split it £20,000 for each grandchild. That would also be fair, but a very different outcome.

I hope that when the time comes (and if I have any money to share out) I will be fair to my children and my grandchildren, and have a bit of spare to give to a child/grandchild at times of sepcial need, but I would hope that none of them took it for granted or made rash choices in expectation of being bailed out.

Triggles · 15/07/2012 10:48

I do not understand why it's open family discussion about how much money is given to others. It's nobody else's business. I don't ask how much money my parents (well, my mum now) have given to my siblings or their children. It's not my business. I know they have, but then they've loaned money to me when I was younger as well. I certainly wouldn't feel the need to say "oh, well, you gave so-and-so money, so you need to be fair and give me the same amount.." How weird is that?!?! And I certainly wouldn't ask how much!!

Those that are insistent on how it needs to be "fair" to everyone are unrealistic. Different people have different needs - some will need help, some won't. It just sounds like "she got more than me" from childhood all over again.

Molehillmountain · 15/07/2012 10:48

I think in an ideal world you should be able to give according to need but the reality is that sharing fairly or not giving at all is the best way to achieve family harmony. I say this after having to talk most severely to myself recently when my in laws started talking about how they will leave more to my bil than to us because my parents have more to leave. I absolutely know that that would be fair in the long run but it irrationally smarted a bit. As I say, I got a grip and realised that I have no entitlement to anything and that I want my nephews to be looked after but I had a moment of childishness. So I can understand where it all goes belly up.

RandomNumbers · 15/07/2012 10:51

equal money or none at all, imo

the GC shouldn't be greedy

also, by asking for more than their share the grandchild risks creating a schism in the family

of course it's his money, to disburse as he sees fit

we all make bad choices, and this family is lucky that they have resources to call on.

In other families, the property failure = rug pulled out, end of story

confusedpixie · 15/07/2012 10:52

I didn't read all posts either but wouldn't lend money based on the last post alone. And mid twenties is plenty old enough to know how to budget, she's fucked up and needs to learn from that, not have somebody bail her out.

I wish my education was being paid for!

Triggles · 15/07/2012 10:59

oh poo on family harmony. My parents raised us to be adults. This whole "it has to be equal or none at all" is pandering to childish behaviour.

diddl · 15/07/2012 10:59

I think it´s lovely that your father is thinking the way he is.

Are there no other options-such as her living in the house & taking less rent?

AThingInYourLife · 15/07/2012 11:01

Giving people money according to "need" just means the squeakiest wheels get everything.

I think your father is dead right to give only what he could afford to give to each GC, and also that a woman in her mid-twenties who is a failed property developer with debts she can't pay is not necessarily deserving of a bailout.

attheendoftheday · 15/07/2012 11:02

I don't think your dad is BU, but it isn't how things work in my family. My DM lent us some money to get our heating fixed when I was about to give birth to DD and we really needed it. She couldn't afford to give the same to DBro. Everyone was open about this, both DM and I talked to DBro to see how he felt about this, he was happy with it as he could see we were pretty desperate. Now I'm back at work we've paid half the money back (which has gone to DBro) and DM has generously let us keep the other half.

Sometimes it does come down to who needs the money at the time. I think you have to be open about it though.

AThingInYourLife · 15/07/2012 11:03

My parents raised us to be adults who aren't always looking to cadge money off our relatives.

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief · 15/07/2012 11:05

My parents raised us to be adults.

In which case they wouldn't be bailing you out in your mid twenties, because you'd been watching too much Property Ladder when you should have been reading the FT and noticed that the market wasn't really in your favour.

NarkedRaspberry · 15/07/2012 11:10

As someone said earlier, if he wants to give her the money all he has to do is make a note in his will that whatever money is divided between the grandchildren, her share is - x amount that she had in 2012.

Triggles · 15/07/2012 11:17

True. But all adults fall on hard times. And if I was in financial difficulty due to sheer stupidity, I suspect my parents would have told me to work it out.

I don't recall watching Property Ladder in my mid 20s, to be fair. My dad did help me with some of the DIY when I bought my first home (in my early 20s), but that was with the actual work (which we both worked on). I paid for the materials myself.

I can't honestly see my parents ever giving any of us money for a down payment for a house, for example, because they would (probably quite rightly) think that if we couldn't scrape money together for that, then the chances of us being able to financially pay for mortgage and upkeep on a house (including any repairs that might pop up) would be slim.

I can't see them paying for course fees either.They would expect me to be better organised about putting money together to cover it. Bailing out kids IMO is when everything falls apart, it's beyond their control, and just to help them get back on their feet.

confusedpixie · 15/07/2012 11:20

I agree with athing, it's the same three who get the money in my family every sodding time. My payments fund one of them and my grandparents haas two living with them until recently, now just one whilst they continue to fund the other -_-

greenplastictrees · 15/07/2012 11:21

Good on her for trying with the property developing. Nothing wrong with giving it a try and such a shame it hasn't worked out. Hopefully she has learnt a lot from the experience and will make something out of it in the end. I've made bad decisions in my life and also had bad circumstances come at me one after the other - I have always been grateful for any support my family and friends give me whether that's emotional or financial, etc.... Would hate to have had people standing there judging or criticising even if I had made bad decisions. Likewise I would never judge someone else for their decisions and would just try and help them get back on track as much as I could.

I think that if your father wants to be equal then that's the way to go. I thnk I will feel the same and that's certainly whay my Grandmother does. It works well and everyone understands that that's what she does.

That said, if I was your father I would perhaps tell the grandchild that she can borrow the money and he would like it back at a rate of x per month (something perfectly affordable but still something). It could be a good lesson in budgeting and after a while he could chose to tell her to keep the rest which is a lovely bonus when you've been paying it back. My grandparents did this to me. When I was 22 and my car engine blew up and So I needed a new car to get to work, I had some savings my parents had saved for me when I was younger that I put towards it and then my Grandparents lent me another £1,000 for the rest of it. I paid it back £100/month for about 5 months when they said 'dont worry - we've been thinking we are going to give each grandchild £500 so just keep the rest'. It was great - totally unexpected and I was really pleased to have that yet I was also pleased I acted responsibly and started paying it back.

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