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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask Y1 teacher to address the class about homophobia?

94 replies

lechatnoir · 13/07/2012 17:51

A few weeks ago DS(6) & I were having a chat about weddings & engagements & I explained how DH 'asked' my dad for my hand in marriage. DS then queried what would happen if 2 men or 2 women got married (ie would no dad's or 2 dad's be asked) & I said I didn't know but in any case plenty if people don't do it nowadays & it's just a silly old tradition going back to times when people thought girls belonged to their father/spouse. Then he said that a boy in his class (let's call him X) said boys can't marry boys & girls can't marry girls so I explained that actually legally they could & as long as you love someone it doesn't matter what sex they are. All taken on board without any drama & I thought end of conversation.

Today I collect DS and he's obviously bothered about something & it finally transpires there was an altercation in the playground today between DS & X because of this same issue and X has been telling DS he's stupid & that all gay people will all burn in hell!! WTAF!

So, AIBU to ask the teacher to address this to the class in an age-appropriate manner or should I speak to X's parents (who I assume planted this idea in X's head and therefore share the same view?).
LCN

OP posts:
WilsonFrickett · 14/07/2012 10:19

Sparkles, purely out of interest, how would you address the 'burn in hell' part of the OP?

sparkles281 · 14/07/2012 12:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WilsonFrickett · 14/07/2012 16:55

That's an immensely cheering response Sparkles, thank you.

lechatnoir · 15/07/2012 21:16

Encouraged by many comments on here particularly sparkles recent thread, I'm going to have a word with the teacher tomorrow. Don't worry I won't talking to the parent as I'm pretty sure this would be her POV too (she's a fairly vocal Evangelist) & cowardly as it may be, I can't face another 5 years arguing! Not sure what, if anything, will happen at school as they are spending all week with their new teachers & have various events/trips planned, but as it happened in school hours I do think they need to be aware of it.
Many thanks all.
LCN

OP posts:
crazygracieuk · 15/07/2012 21:33

Yanbu to want the teacher to talk to the class but it end up escalating things. There may be parents who will freak out at the word gay being uttered in their y1's presence and others who will claim that homosexuality is wrong.

I know parents who are openly homophobic, racist, religious in ways strange to an atheist and I tell my children that our family is tolerant and I will not tolerate them being racist/homophobic/mean.

You can't change the opinions of other families but you can influence your dc, just tell him that he is right and that the other child will learn the truth when he's older.

boneyjonesy · 15/07/2012 22:33

Is 'gays will burn in hell' homophobic? I am not so sure .It's a statement of the child's religious belief.I can not see any hatred in that statement
I have heard more or less the same thing in an Anglican church sermon. Why should the child be gagged on his christian beliefs in a christian country.

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans · 16/07/2012 08:20

The statement that someone will suffer eternal torment, with the implication that it must be right because God says so? Yes, that's a homophobic belief. The ultimate homophobic belief, even, and those churches are homophobic too. Just like the slave culture was racist despite their justifying it with the BIble.

birdsofshoreandsea · 16/07/2012 08:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pendeen · 16/07/2012 09:16

"... Almost two in five (37 per cent) lesbian, gay and bisexual young people who are bullied never tell anyone they are experiencing homophobic bullying ..."

If they never tell anyone then how on earth can this be anything other than nonsense?

boneyjonesy · 16/07/2012 09:25

so for arguments sake suppose he had said that thieves would be punished for all eternity and somebodies mum has been had up for shoplifting would that be unacceptable

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans · 16/07/2012 09:31

I don't think it's acceptable to say that anyone will burn in hell, especially given that a child that age has no real idea what he's saying anyway.

I've come across Christians who've thought they were being tolerant by saying that homosexuality was 'no worse' than thieving, adultery, lying etc. The difference is that being gay is not a crime and not intrinsically harmful to anyone. It's like condemning someone for being heterosexual.

birdsofshoreandsea · 16/07/2012 15:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Extrospektiv · 30/09/2012 22:04

No, the difference is God condemns homosexual sex acts but not heterosexual ones within a godly marriage. And any white priviliged fool who tries to substitute black for L/G/B/T/all four to promote their agenda is appropriative as well as dead wrong. Gay is NOT the new black- I know blacks deeply, deeply offended by such a statement which some whites have so casually made.

  1. You can't use the Equality Act 2010 to regulate what children say to each other on the playground
  2. Blacks, Jews, or Gays burning in hell? Only "all blacks burn in hell" is outright unacceptable, although the other two are insensitive things for one child to say to another. If "Jew" is defined in the mainstream religion based way as "a person who follows Judaism but does not believe in the New Testament Gospels or in Jesus as the Saviour" (and not as a racial term for ethnic Jews, but don't expect Y1 kids to know the difference) then that's the standard Evangelical Christian belief. It's also a common Muslim belief. If "gay" is taken to mean a person who practices homosexual sex acts (and again, not something that a 6yo is expected to know, the mechanics of sex acts and the difference between practising and non-practising homosexuals) and does not repent, then that's also standard Evangelical Christian belief, and a common Muslim belief too.

Evangelical Christian churches and mosques are LEGAL in this country!

The bar for speech to be criminalised as incitement to hatred based on race, religion or sexual orientation is very high- as it should be. We need free speech.

Therefore, anyone suggesting that law should be used to prevent such beliefs being expressed is out of line with UK law as it stands.
To say practising homosexuals will receive punishment from God, if what they are doing goes against God's law, is not homophobic. To suggest the law of the land should be used to persecute them would be homophobic. Jesus knew the difference- he threatened the eternal destruction of adulterers at the Last Judgment, but ordered people not to throw stones at them (or hate them) here on Earth. Christians are to love and tolerate those who do not obey God in this life, but they are not being hateful by warning them of Hell if they believe this is true; I do not believe in eternal torment but many sincere Christians do.

To claim homophobia because someone listed homosexuality in a sin list with criminal behaviour is absolute bullshit, because we're talking about what God disapproves of here. Nothing to do with the decisions of who is in power at the moment or what the present democratic consensus in our society is. On any list of sins there will be things that are illegal in UK criminal law (murder, theft, rape) and others that are not illegal (premarital sex, abortion within '67 Act as amended, homosexual relationships, hedonism/self-indulgence, failure to support the vulnerable, lying, believing false doctrine, blaspheming God, favouritism, even HATRED.) This has no relevance to their status as sin. Unless a teacher was trying to teach people that gay activities were crimes in this country, which is a lie and should lead to serious disciplinary issues!

Would it not be appropriate to teach Y1 children not to bully or tease anyone for "who they like/love" or for "who their mum and dad are" (whether or not people support same sex parenting, it is unacceptable to bully children for something they did not control just as much as it was wrong to stigmatise the children of unmarried parents in the past.) Warn against any discrimination like leaving someone to sit alone at lunch, picking people last constantly for football teams and invites to parties. I'm not sure if many young children would want to discriminate openly against people anyway. The teacher can say that for when you're an adult and get a job, you're not allowed to refuse someone or treat them worse just because they're gay, and you can't legally refuse them a business service you provide just because of what type of family they have. Then a word about why using "gay" as an insult is bad, and challenge any homophobic epithets heard coming from children. That should cover homophobia.

If they ask about marriage, as civil partnerships are marriage in all but name and are called marriages by most people who have one (I remember the articles on the first day of the Civil Partnerships Act enactment; all the talk was "gay marriage", "gay wedding", "husband", "wife". ) and furthermore full civil marriage will almost certainly be in force once these children reach legal age for it, then I'd say the school should teach that yes, two men or two women can get married to each other, if that question comes up. As the most common definition of "marriage" is the legal one. If religious parents want to teach a different definition at home, with marriage being a religious and cultural institution as well as a legal one, they are welcome to do so. And the teacher should not go beyond saying "this is what the law says", they should not imply they support or oppose it and most definitely not try to claim that traditional marriage is "homophobic".

When a child comes saying "But Sir, mum's gone mad! I was telling her what you said the other day that a man can marry another man when he gets bigger and she says that's disgusting and you're telling me lies. Marriage is a woman and a man and that's the end of the discussion."- the teacher can respond sensitively: "The rules made by the government say that any two grown-ups who love each other can get married (don't bring up bigamy or incest unless asked specifically at this age) and so they can sign a paper which gives them special rights to each other and a duty to look after children they have together. Your mum's talking about religious marriages, which are only recognised by the religious group you go to, and when you're old enough to marry you can make your own decisions about which religious group if any to take part in. Some of them only let people marry someone of the opposite sex (do not suggest "old-fashioned" or "out of date" view of marriage, let alone homophobic!). Just remember, all the rights for people legally married are the same whether they're gay, lesbian, bisexual or straight."

You see? Anti-homophobia, anti-bullying/violence, distinguishing between the secular laws made by our government and religions, without saying that "gay sex is alright and you and your parents are archaic bigoted hateful potentially criminal scum if you dissent."

Himalaya · 30/09/2012 22:25

Lechat - I think you are right to have a chat with the teacher. Don't take it up with the parents, it is not worth it to get in a stand-up row on the playground.

lljkk · 30/09/2012 22:34

ZOMBIE THREAD

Himalaya · 30/09/2012 22:36

Oops Blush

Oh well maybe the OP will come back with an update.

WorraLiberty · 30/09/2012 22:37

Blimey

Talk about the resurrection....

bellabreeze · 30/09/2012 22:47

That is obviously the childs parents religious beliefs and its not up to teachers to challenge it.. also I personally think year 1 is too young to be learning about gays and lesbians, they are too young for it to affect them but thats a seperate story

Felicitywascold · 30/09/2012 22:52

Worra- it's a remarkably wordy resurrection at that...

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